K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about what a typical job is – like, how Japan and the United States view typical jobs. And, like, I feel that the United States is – has a broader category of what typical jobs are than Japan does because I’m a therapist, and in the United States, if I say – or to Americans – if I say I’m a therapist, they’re like, “oh, okay. You talk to people for a living.” But in Japan if I say a therapist, they’re like, “what?” And completely confused.

C: And there’s a word for therapist. There are several. So, there’s the Japanese word for therapist, which I don’t remember right now, but there’s also “therapist.”

K: Yeah. I know several of them, and I’m not speaking Japanese today. I’m just not doing it. I’m refusing.

C: Okay.

K: Drawing a line in the sand. So, what’s even weirder is that the people – some of the people – sorry, I have to cough. [cough] I just ate a roasted marshmallow before the show, and

C: It was sweet and tasty.

K: Yeah. It was. But it’s left my throat a little parched.

C: Not parched.

K: Yeah, and it left like a particular spot in the back of my throat dry, so that was interesting. So, even people who are like sitting across from me in the therapeutic environment or talking to me in the therapeutic environment will say, “I didn’t know these were a real thing” and ask me, like, “do Japanese people do this for a living, too?” And I’m like, “yes, you can find a Japanese therapist”

C: (laughs)

K: “Who, born and raised in Japan, trained in Japan.”

C: Yeah.

K: And I belong to the Japanese Psychological Association. There’s, like

C: Yeah, which is mostly researchers, but I think like… more than 10% of their members are therapists.

K: And there’s 4 or 5 different groups to help you find a therapist.

C: Yes.

K: That’s the only thing they do. In Japan.

C: Yes. Referral services for therapy. 

K: Yeah. So, I feel like in the United States, maybe a decade ago it would’ve been weird to say you’re a YouTuber, but it’s – at least, in my lifetime – it hasn’t been weird. I know in the 70s it was kind of weird in California. I don’t know about the rest of the nation. But in California, it was a little bit weird. And, because of various reasons, I’ve been in – I was in thera – I still am in therapy since I was 2.

C: Yeah.

K: So… for me, I guess therapists have always been a part of my life. And, so, they’ve never seemed alternative to me. It never seemed like an alternative lifestyle.

C: But I think it’s more general than that. I think, in the U.S., if you say, like, “I’m an influencer” it’s only recently that’s not a weird thing. But when people ask, “what do you do?” They expect you to tell them your job. Kind of the contents of what you do.

K: Yeah.

C: And, here, if people ask – which they usually don’t – they just want to know what social strata your job is part of.

K: Mm. Yeah.

C: Like, are you a salaryman? Meaning an office worker. So, the Japanese is “salariman” or “kaishain.” But just meaning a person who works at a company, which is confusing because pretty much everybody works at a company.

K: Yeah.

C: Including people who work for themselves.

K: And, so, most people don’t say salaryman anymore. That’d kind of outdated.

C: Oh, is it?

K: Now, people usually say… which is more interesting to me – they usually say freshman employee. Sophomore, or what their job title is.

C: Okay.

K: And I think it’s interesting, like freshman employee you’re in your first year of employment at a company.

C: Right.

K: And sophomore, you’re in your second-year employment at a company, and then around your third year – at least, in my experience. And then with Rasta’s experience – he’s 26, I’m in my 50s. Chad’s in his 40s. So, we have several different generations.

C: You and I are both Gen-X. Don’t front.

K: The Musick Notes will know. The Musick Notes will know the truth.

C: You and I are both solidly Gen-X.

K: The Musick Notes will know the truth.

C: People will talk about the boomer versus the millennials, and we’re just off to the side. Just watching the battle.

K: Yeah, and I love millennials. I don’t understand why… generations need to poop on other generations.

C: I don’t either.

K: Completely different worlds.

C: I think the oldest millennials are like 39 or 40 now. The – college kids are not millennials, for the most part.

K: And for me

C: I was in college in my 30s, but

K: Yeah. Anywho.

C: (laughs)

K: Back to what we were saying. So… now I forgot what I was saying. What was I saying?

C: You were saying

K: Talking about like Rasta’s generation

C: Yeah.

K: And how they don’t – so, Rasta’s in a unique position for his job. And his job is that he is… the head of a multimedia company. And as the head of the multimedia company, he does a lot of different things. And he doesn’t know how to talk about what he does for a living in English, but he does know how to talk about it in Japanese. Which I find interesting in terms of his language development. But multimedia company is so confusing to Japanese people when he’s talking to them, and I think that’s so weird.

C: I think that’s weird, too, because the Japanese companies tend to be much more horizontally… integrated than American companies.

K: Yes.

C: So, Mitsubishi Group makes everything from cars to

K: Xylophones.

C: Yeah.

K: Literally.

C: Yeah.

K: And, so, I know that one of the… I forget – oh gosh. I’m going to be so out of it this podcast, you guys, I am completely sleep deprived, and honestly – I guess I kind of want to talk about being a podcaster. It’s really challenging because we’re like shouting into the wind sometimes. And I just looked at our… Castos right before the episode. And it kind of bums me out. We’ve lost listeners. I think because of that pocket of political episodes we did.

C: Mm. Yeah.

K: I think people don’t come to us for political content.

C: And they should because you and I are both so politically aware.

K: (laughs) But we don’t usually talk about it.

C: No.

K: And then… so, this kind of ties into the business side of it because I think people don’t understand… either things that I do for business. They don’t understand the business side of being a therapist because, if they think about therapy as a business, that immediately makes me a predator.

C: Mhm.

K: And that I don’t want people to get better because, as a therapist, I tell everybody “I’m in the business of putting myself out of business.” And that is – I’m in the business of helping people have more good days than bad. As soon as they have more good days than bad, they’ll stop talking to me. And a lot of people ask me, “well, then how can I trust you that you’ll want me to have more good days than bad?” And here’s the truth: it’s… not interesting as a therapist – for me – as a therapist to… not help someone. That’s boring. And, so, if I’m not helping, it feels pointless to me and boring.

If I am helping, I feel like, okay. We’re doing something here. And just my personality – I like it to be – I like the work to be really dynamic. That’s my approach as a therapist, and so that makes me a really great fit for some people. And a not so great fit for other people who want more of like an analysis approach where the therapist isn’t really tasking them to do anything, and they’re allowed to just talk and come to their own realizations.

C: Which is interesting to me because your approach doesn’t rely on any faith. It doesn’t really on the person saying, “okay, if I do this for five or ten years” or however long

K: No, not five or ten years.

C: “I’m going to feel better afterwards even though I’m not feeling any difference whatsoever right now.”

K: Yeah, no.

C: And you and I have talked about it, and your

K: I’m very open. If I don’t think a – a client is making progress with me, I’m very open with them. And telling them that I don’t think I’m the right therapist for them because

C: Yeah.

K: My style is not helping them progress.

C: Right.

K: And I want them to progress, and I think fondly and… of all my clients who have moved on, and I think fondly of all of my clients I’m currently working with.

C: Mhm.

K: And I think one of the harder aspects – so, I think that’s why in Japan it’s so confusing. Because I won’t’ take everybody’s money. There are people that, after the free intake, I’m like, “I’m sorry, I’m not the right therapist for you.”

C: Yeah.

K: And I give them resources to find someone else. But this show isn’t about me being a therapist. It’s not an informercial for my therapy practice. I’m full right now.

C: Yeah, but I – I was thinking it’s kind of the flipside in being a podcaster because being a podcaster, you don’t know how many people are going to listen.

K: Yeah.

C: You don’t know how many people are going to join whatever methods you have to support yourself. Like, we have our Patreon and we have a little bit of merchandise with our logo.

K: Yeah.

C: But you don’t – you have to kind of say, “okay, if we do this for this amount of time… people will come.” Like, the field of dreams.

K: Yeah.

C: Because I am part of Gen-X, and that was an important movie to American Gen-Xers. If you build it, they will come.

K: It wasn’t an important movie to me at all. I’ve never seen it. I know it was a cornfield. I know

C: See? That’s how important it was. You know one element of it.

K: Yeah…. I know it was a cornfield because I saw a poster of a cornfield.

C: Okay.

K: I don’t know anything else. I don’t know what they were building in the cornfield.

C: A baseball diamond.

K: Okay. That sounds stupid.

C: (laughs)

K: So (laughs) I don’t know if the movie was stupid or not, but I can see why I’ve never seen it.

C: And everybody told him he was stupid. And you see a lot of articles

K: Because if he’s a corn farmer

C: Yes.

K: How’s he gonna look?

C: Right?

K: He should have enough land that he should build it somewhere other than his cornfield, hello, where his crops grow. That’s stupid.

C: But when we started the podcast, if you looked up how to be a podcaster, the general advice

K: It said don’t.

C: Was don’t.

K: Yeah.

C: And then it was, “don’t unless you’re a celebrity.”

K: Because it’s soul crushing.

C: Sometimes, it is, yeah. You’ll work hard on something, and then you’ll put it out there, and then you’ll be like… 20 people somewhere in the world spent an hour listening to that.

K: So, I find our changing demographics to be interesting – like we used to have a large following in Japan, and now we do not.

C: I think people in Japan don’t understand – and we’ve talked about the hustle before, specifically – don’t understand moonlighting and the side hustle and secondary jobs.

K: Yeah.

C: So, if

K: But that has nothing to do with our listenership dropping off in Japan.

C: You don’t think so? Because I think that some of our listeners here expected it to be, like, explosively. Like, okay, we start the Musicks in Japan, and three episodes later we announce we’re both quitting our jobs because the Musicks in Japan is now our full-time job.

K: Because we’ve been doing it for about 18 months now?

C: Yeah, that’s right.

K: Yeah. And… we’re in the top 50% of podcasts, which I think is quite astounding that we’ve been able to stay in the top 50% of podcasts even with Musick Notes abandoning us or leaving us or – and I think part of that has to do with, you know, everything that’s going on in the world right now. Everybody and their mother has a podcast. There’s like – the number of podcasters increased exponentially

C: Yes.

K: In 2021. And, so, I’m happy that we’re in the top 50%. But trying to explain to – I feel like the Musicks in Japan is more a labor of love rather than a job.

C: Right.

K: And, for me… it is work, and it does require a lot of effort and creativity and a lot of energy. Like, today I’m sick, and I’m tired, and I don’t feel like recording.

C: And yet you are. Here you are.

K: Yeah, and so that’s the job part of it.

C: Right.

K: You get up and do it even when you don’t feel like it. And… so, we’ve created consistency, and I think that consistency has led to the Musick Notes really hanging with us and standing by us, which I totally appreciate you guys. I love that you guys tune in every week to listen to (laughs) our ramblings and digressions.

C: A few weeks ago, I got a message from one of our Musick Note saying, “hey, where’s the episode?”

K: (laughs)

C: And I wrote them back and said, “it’s 8 o’clock in the morning. The episode comes at 10. Be patient.”

K: (laughs)

C: The episode always comes at 10. Be patient.

K: Yeah, it does. But it’s 10 o’clock Japan time.

C: Right.

K: And so, it’s – we don’t have time change in Japan.

C: Right.

K: So, we don’t have daylight savings in Japan. So, for everyone that’s having – so, like, recently Australia had daylight savings

C: Yeah, Australia, the U.S., and Europe all went – on different days.

K: Yeah.

C: So, it was interesting for me at work in that water cooler interesting – not in the “this fascinates me and I must now study it” – to see all of the gaps between me and my coworkers changing.

K: So, something I haven’t figured out for myself is, “do I view this as a radio show?” And when I say that out loud, I think no I don’t. It’s a podcast. But I don’t fundamentally know the difference between a podcast and a radio show, and this was revealed to me when I was speaking to a Japanese friend about the podcast, and – so, I’ll be honest, I was harassing my friend like, “yo, how come you’re not listening to my podcast anymore.”

(laughter)

K: And they were like, “because” they told me honestly “because I have no interest in anything that’s going in the United States” and they were only listening to it for – to learn my opinions about Japan. Which was so weird to me.

C: That is weird to you. Do you secretly hate Japan?

K: Right? I always feel like my Japanese friends are constantly looking for that day when I’m going to hate Japan. And I’m very honest about the number one thing I hate about Japan is that there’s no Jack in the Box.

C: Yeah.

K: That’s my number one problem with Japan – like out of everything – and I know there are bigger, systemic problems in the world. But, for me, it’s Jack in the Box. Because – the other day we were just talking about this – I would love, love, love – if you’re in the state of California, you’re really going to relate to this, and it’s probably going to make you crack up. Or I hope it does. I would love for a Japanese person, or any Asian person from Asia to taste the Jack in the Box eggroll.

C: Mhm.

K: And then watch their mind be blown as to how this is in any way an eggroll.

C: Yeah because I – we have some Japanese friends who are very cosmopolitan. So, Japan doesn’t really do eggrolls unless you – if you want eggrolls here, you have to go to a Chinese restaurant.

K: Yeah.

C: Japan has spring rolls.

K: Yeah.

C: And they’re different than the Vietnamese spring rolls.

K: But in looking at it, they would think that it was a spring roll.

C: Right.

K: And then the… thought of dipping it in ranch dressing would just be like, “what are you doing?” Because the only place to get

C: Well, Jack in the Box has buttermilk dressing. Not even ranch dressing.

K: Okay, so that’s even stranger. Because the only place you can get ranch dressing here is

C: Costco.

K: Can you get it at Costco?

C: Yeah, that’s where – that’s where you can get it. Is Costco.

K: Really? I thought the only place you could get it was Outback.

C: Oh, as far as restaurants, yeah.

K: Yeah, so I don’t think that Japanese nationals are eating ranch dressing.

C: Probably not a lot, no.

K: Because you don’t – and I love the sesame dressing. The Japanese sesame dressing is absolutely delicious.

C: Yeah.

K: So, you should go to Mitsukoshi if you have one in your town and try the sesame dressing. It is so flavorful. And so delicious. It’s really scrumptious. Definitely try it.

C: We had a Mitsukoshi grocery store near De Anza college where we went. I think that’s why you’re thinking of

K: They’re all over the United States.

C: Are they?

K: Yeah.

C: See, I thought they were just in Northern California.

K: No, I know that there’s a couple in Texas, Kansas. Wherever there’s a Toyota factory, there’s a Mitsukoshi.

C: Oh, interesting.

K: Yeah.

C: I hadn’t made that connection.

K: Yeah because there’s a lot of – anywhere that there’s a Japan town. And almost every state has a Japan town.

C: That’s true.

K: So, if you go to Japan town, there’s usually Mitsukoshi – and if not a Mitsukoshi, there’s some sort of Japanese grocer.

C: Right.

K: And you’ve – definitely check out the sesame dressing. It is so scrumptious.

C: It really is.

K: Yeah. And they’re not sponsoring this video. I just really love the dressing. (laughs)

C: Well, you can get like 50 different brands of it here.

K: Yeah.

C: There’s not like the Japanese Dressing – Japanese Sesame Dressing Association.

K: Yeah. (laughs)

C: Like how there’s the milk – the Milk Board that pays for advertisements for milk.

K: Yeah.

C: They don’t do that for sesame dressing.

K: And, so, my favorite – I don’t know the name of it – but I like the one from Circle K.

C: Yes.

K: Which is a convenience store. And

C: Which no longer exists.

K: It doesn’t exist anymore?

C: Family Mart bought them, and then over the course of a couple of years, they all changed to Family Mart.

K: Okay.

C: And you’ve tried the Family Mart one, and it’s the same recipe because they bought it from Circle K. 

K: Okay. They’ll always be Circle K to me. Circle K forever.

C: Yeah.

K: So, I’m really bad at changing names of stuff because of my dyslexia, so once I learn something, that’s what it is.

C: Well, and there was a Circle K in my town growing up in Texas.

K: Was there?

C: Yeah.

K: Interesting.

C: It started out as an American company, got bought by a Japanese company

K: Mhm.

C: And then that got bought by a different Japanese company.

K: So, back to talking about our topic – having non-traditional jobs in Japan. So, figuring out whether or not this is a podcast or a radio show and what’s the difference – I’m going to ask my autistic husband because he has a rule for everything. And I don’t know whether or not he has a rule for this because I never asked him.

C: I absolutely do. Yes.

K: But – just to ease his mind – I don’t have a non-autistic husband. I only have one. Because he always – he literally wonders when I say “my autistic husband” if I have a husband who’s not autistic. Whi – am I referring to just him? Is he my only husband?

C: Well, and if you say, “my autistic spouse” I’m like, wait a minute. Wait a minute. When did you get a wife?

K: Yeah, exactly, so (laughs) it really goes on in his mind. So, just to clarify things: I only have one spouse, one partner, one romantic partner, because Rasta’s our business partner. So, I have two business partners, but only one romantic partner. One intimate partner. In that way. And that would be you. And you’re autistic, and you’re my husband. Therefore, you are my autistic husband.

C: Okay. I gotcha.

K:  And anyone who’s not autistic, what I did was not offensive in any way. And if you’re a Musick Note, y’all know what we’re doing.

(laughter)

K: I don’t – I really don’t like when I get person-first language notes. I really despise it.

C: Well, you were trained on person-first language.

K: I was.

C: And you use that person-first language to talk to disabled people and autistic kids and all of that

K: I do not use that person-first language

C: Right.

K: With

C: No, I’m saying you – you talk to them

K: I have zero clients with autism, but I have several autistic clients.

C: Right.

K: And all of my autistic clients have been very clear that they are not “with” autism

C: Right.

K: That they are autistic.

C: Right. Of the two of us, you are the one with autism. Because I am the autism you are with.

K: Yes. I am with autism.

C: (laughs)

K: Yes. I am married with autism.

C: Yup.

(laughter)

K: It’s a funny joke we do. I always tell Chad that I’m married with him.

C: Yes.

K: That I like being married with him. I prefer being married with him to being married to him.

C: It’s something we’re doing together.

K: Yeah.

C: It’s not something we’re doing to each other.

K: Yeah.

C: It’s something we’re doing together.

K: Yeah because “I’m married to you” feels really pointed.

C: Yeah.

K: And it also feels really dominate. Like, if I’m married to you, then I’m

C: And which word do you emphasize? I’m married *to* you. Or I’m married to *you*

K: Yeah.

C: Or I’m *married* to you.

K: Yeah, so every now and then I’ll – mmm. It’s really rare that I say it. I prefer married with.

C: Yes.

K: So, anywho, there was a point in all of this, and I forget

C: There was. You wanted to know what’s the difference between a podcast and a radio show.

K: Yeah, what is the difference between a podcast and a radio show?

C: Okay if we want to go strictly

K: Yeah, I want to do strictly.

C: Okay. Strictly, the difference between a podcast and a radio show is the radio show is broadcast live. And so

K: Not all of them.

C: Yes. I’m telling you strictly.

K: Okay, strictly.

C: Do not disagree with me on strictly.

K: (laughs) Okay. Yeah. That’s true. When I think about it.

C: And very strictly, it would be broadcast over the radio waves. You might have it simultaneously broadcast over the internet, but it would be broadcast from a radio tower. That would make it a radio show.

K: Yeah, and our shows are never live.

C: Right.

K: They’re always prerecorded.

C: So, now radio shows are often used for things that are only broadcast over the internet but are done so live or with a small delay. Sometimes, they’ll have a ten second delay to bleep words if they’re not going to allow profanity or to allow live captioning or things like that. Our podcast is recorded in advance, and then the entire thing is available at once, so you never see it live.

K: Yeah.

C: You can’t – you don’t need to ever stream it.

K: Mhm.

C: You could skip around in it. You could listen to the end to get to the punchline. And then listen to the whole setup. So… we’re a podcast.

K: Okay, so listening to the end of our podcast would just lead to confusion.

C: It would.

K: Because (laughs) I don’t know. Sometimes – do y’all ever just skip around? I think that would be so confusing because we are not a linear podcast. Because I am not a linear thinking

C: I saw one of our friends online

K: I swerve and curve.

C: Who said that, when they listen to podcasts, even if those podcasts have a transcript – which we always shave a transcript

K: Yeah, we always do.

C: Rather than reading the transcript, they just listen and then go back and relisten to the get the words they missed.

K: Okay. Nice. Thank you for listening twice. We love our Musick Notes. So, I think that we have like the best audience in the world. I really do. I love our interaction with them, I love how kind they are, I love how supportive they are, and I love how much they wish we would advertise our podcast. (laughs)

C: And because you’re hearing this, she means you.

K: Yes. I am talking about you, listener. You listening right now. I am talking directly to you. So… that’s really sweet, and – and I really appreciate it. It’s been really kind of hard for me that all of our – I think all but maybe five of our Japanese listeners have stopped listening because of – they stopped listening at the Black Lives Matter episode.

C: Mhm.

K: And then they just sort of haven’t come back.

C: Yeah.

K: and I think… well, I know because I knew all of our Japanese listeners – but there was a time where I didn’t. Where we had several hundred Japanese listeners. And the reason that we got so political is because those were things that were deeply affecting us, and we talk about whatever I’m thinking about.

C: Yes.

K: Like, that’s the whole premise of the podcast. It’s not even what Chad’s been thinking about. It’s whatever… I’ve been thinking about.

C: I mean, I find my ways to insert what I’ve been thinking about.

K: Yeah. So, I don’t really – we don’t really know. Like, we maybe have two or three rough ideas, and… we, like, jot them down, but we tried – so, at the very beginning of the podcast, we made a list of 56 topics.

C: Yeah.

K: And we pretty closely stuck to those, but not in order.

C: We did all of those. Right. Yeah, I think we

K: And we did do all of them.

C: So, that was the first year. Including the multiple episodes that we released when we launched, so the people could kind of get into it.

K: Yeah.

C: Say, “okay, there’s more than one episode here.”

K: Yeah. But I found that it just – as the world started becoming more dynamic around us, and s our lives started becoming more dynamic, I found that having those pre-planned episodes that were… planned months and months in advance just didn’t work. And we used to record episodes months and months in advance, and that wasn’t working anymore because it made us really out of step with the world.

C: Right.

K: And we live in the world.

C: We do.

K: We are part of the world. We don’t live in an ivory tower. We do have a manshon in an apartment building.

C: That is ivory colored. So…

K: Yeah. No, I don’t think it’s ivory. I think it’s more of a cream.

C: Okay. Yeah, I could go for that.

K: Yeah. Because it’s got more yellow in it than

C: Yeah.

K: Than a bone.

C: Okay. Yeah. But talking with Japanese people, and when they say, “what do you do?” When I wasn’t working fulltime – when I was doing freelancing – I would say, “I’m a podcaster. I do podcasts.” And they’d say, “well, what does that mean?” “Well, do you know what a podcast is?” “Yeah, I’m vaguely aware what a podcast is.”

K: I’ve met people that are like, “no.” (laughs)

C: Yeah. But most of the people I meet tend to be in technology in some way, so I think they’re a little bit more aware.

K: Yeah.

C: Most people that you meet tend to be in pain in some way.

K: Yeah.

C: Just due to the nature of our jobs. But they – they would say things like, “well, why would anybody go listen to your opinion?”

K: Yeah.

C: Like, not – not directed as us specifically. Not *your* opinion, but “why would a person want to know another person’s opinion?”

K: Yeah.

C: “How is that job to give an opinion?” And then they would tell me about the latest thought leader that they were listening to

K: Yeah.

C: So, they – Japanese fascination, and I don’t think it’s strictly Japanese, but it’s definitely here – with thought leaders is just… I have a hard time distinguishing.

K: It’s a global – a global thing.

C: Is it? Okay.

K: Yeah – because think about Tony Robbins. He’s a thought leader. If you think about Eckhart Tolle, he’s a thought leader.

C: Yeah.

K: So, there’s tons and tons of thought leaders out there, and a lot of people love to hear successful people talk about their thoughts.

C: Mhm.

K: And, for me, I didn’t get why would anybody listen from Japanese nationals. I got “give me your elevator pitch and make me care.”

C: Mm.

K: From Americans, mostly. And I was like, no thank you?

C: Okay.

(laughter)

K: It’s not that serious. It’s not that serious. Like… “well, what do you guys talk about?” And I would tell “honestly, whatever I’m thinking about.” And they’re like, “so why would people listen?”

C: In an overarching theme, we talk about what it’s like to live in Japan

K: Yeah.

C: Being foreigners

K: Yeah.

C: Who don’t have to make elevator pitches about why people should care about what we do.

K: (laughs) Snap. (laughs) Completely. Completely. So, I was like, it’s a – it’s a sort of – so, I’m torn between the phrase passion project and vanity project.

C: Mhm.

K: So, we do it because we enjoy talking to each other, and the thought to do a podcast – and I don’t know if we said this, but I think we might have said it before – is because we were standing on a platform getting ready to go out of town, facing each other, talking in deep and rapt conversation. And a friend of ours – we didn’t notice our friend standing there – a friend of ours was standing there and just enjoying watching us talk.

C: Right.

K: And enjoying eavesdropping on our conversation. And then was like, as we were getting on the train, they were like “hey, I’m not getting on this train you’re getting on, but I saw you guys, and I saw that you” (laughs)

C: (laughs)

K: “And I really enjoyed your conversation. Every time I see you guys, you sound and look so in love. And I wish I had that with my partner.” And then they dashed across the platform and got onto their train.

C: Yup.

K: And that sort of started the germ of an idea.

C: Mhm.

K: Like, what could we do… to sort of… I don’t know, share that with people? (laughs) And, so, I don’t know if it’s vanity to want to share it with people or passion

C: I think that, for me, I always have to tell myself people want to hear what you think. Or I just won’t speak.

K: Yeah.

C: Like – and that’s the autism. I’ll admit.

K: Yeah.

C: So, for me, saying it’s a vanity project – it doesn’t fit in what I think of as a vanity project. Because what we’re talking about is not… like… here’s how to do it. A vanity project would be, “we’re in love. We’ve been married more than 20 years. We’re still in love. We still like each other. We still talk for hours every day. Here’s how you do that.”

K: Yeah, we’re not doing that.

C: And I don’t think there’s one right way. And you would know a lot more about couple dynamics because of your job.

K: Yeah.

C: But, no, we’re not doing that. And you and I have always talked about how we would never

K: We don’t want to proselytize.

C: Exactly.

K: Like… what do we – what are we doing? I think we’re just inviting people into our conversation.

C: Yes, that’s what we’re doing.

K: Inviting people to take part in our conversation and

C: TO hear our thoughts and all of that and, like, writing the book that I’m publishing in February. I’m sharing my specific thoughts in one form about one story. So, a novel is kind of like

K: Mmm. The book that you’re doing is breaking hearts, but that’s part of the take two.

C: Yeah.

K: That’s part – if you want to know the devastation that this book has caused

C: Right.

K: Positive devastation. That’s a take two topic.

C: Yeah.

K: And we’re saving it for take two because we really, really, really appreciate everyone who’s giving to the Patreon and everyone who takes the time to spend that extra 10 to 15 minutes with us every week. We want to give them value added, and so far, they’re really enjoying it. And I thought it was gonna be a mixed bag.

C: Yeah.

K: Id didn’t think everybody would be as into it, but I guess the process for your book has been so dynamic, maybe they’re enjoying how quickly – like, every week there’s really something new and exciting that’s happening.

C: Yeah.

K: And it sort of anchors us in time to show that we’re not recording these (laughs) months and months in advance. That this is like our weekly – this is where we’re at in our life kind of thing.

C: Right.

K: So, I’m still – we’re still in quarantine. We’re still in lockdown, and for me something I’m interested to see is what happens to all the podcasts after lockdown.

C: Yeah. When all the people who are doing them instead of performing or

K: Yeah.

C: Being in film or whatever are – yeah, will they keep it up? Because it’s a lot of work.

K: Because we don’t – we don’t have seasons.

C: Right.

K: So, we record 52 weeks out of the year.

C: Yup.

K: And we do it every single week, even when I’m feeling sick or low in energy.

C: And we’ve done it even while we’re on vacation. We take our gear with us, and we set up, and we record.

K: Yeah. So, to me, I think it’s gonna be really interesting to watch them fall off.

C: Yeah.

K: and I feel kind of sad for their audience, you know?

C: Yeah.

K: Because they build – I know another thing that I love about y’all is the Musick Note shave really formed a community. And they talk to each other on Twitter, and…. They talk to each other on Instagram. And, so, even though we’ve stopped posting (laughs)

C: Right.

K: Our Instagram fell off, y’all we know. It fell off like a year ago.

C: But we

K: Because Instagram will not let you schedule.

C: Right. It’s against the rules to have something schedule it for you.

K: Yeah.

C: And this we can schedule it.

K: Yeah. And on Twitter, y’all know we don’t – like, this episode though I am gonna – ohh – I have a pen. But I’m so tired today, I don’t have the energy to pick it up and write down – but I think this episode we should… promote because it’s – we’re back to ourselves.

C: Okay.

K: Because now that the U.S. election is over, that sort of – I had a brain fever with everything that was going on with it. It was so upsetting or me. And now, I feel like I’ve regained myself. And this is not the platform for my activism.

C: Right.

K: This was never a platform for my activism. At least, from my perspective. It wasn’t… someth – it was a place that I went just to have a conversation with you.

C: Yeah.

K: And talk about – literally, like literally I was roasting a marshmallow saying, “what are gonna talk about today?” And you’re like, “I don’t know. What are you thinking about?” I think it’s weird that the Japanese people don’t know what a therapist is. And I think it’s even weirder and someone’s in session with me, and they’re like, “what do you do?”

C: (laughs)

K: And I’m like… because – so, it’s not like you can just get an appointment with me immediately. It’s a process to get an appointment. It’s not an arduous one.

C: Right.

K: But there is a form that you fill out. And on the form, it’s just basic background information. The form is, “what would you like to work on?”

C: Right.

K: And everybody fills in that thing, and then… in the session, I talk about that. And I do like a whole preamble. And… I’m always shocked that, like, at the end of it they’re like, “so this is what you do.”

C: Yeah.

K: And I’m like, yeah, this is what we do.

C: That’s interesting to me because I don’t see how your therapy sessions are put together. Because those are private.

K: Yeah.

C: But I have helped you put together by being an audience for

K: But I jokingly shared with you my preamble.

C: That’s what I’m saying – I’ve helped you put together by being an audience your speech about confidentiality. Your speech about

K: Yeah because that has to roll off the tongue.

C: Your speech about cognitive behavioral therapy if people come to you asking for that.

K: Yeah, and why they shouldn’t. (laughs)

C: Yeah. (laughs)

K: I’m willing to do cognitive behavioral therapy, but I don’t think it works.

C: You’re – you’re

K: I don’t think it’s the most effective. It’s a rare, rare person that actually does see CBT the way that it’s – cognitive behavioral therapy – the way that it’s meant to be done.

C: Well, and I think CBT – you and I have talked about this a lot, so these are my thoughts not Kisstopher’s thoughts as a therapist. I think CBT is not effective if your situation sucks because I think CBT is about, “oh, my situation is good, but my mind is bad.”

K: Yeah because it’s about your automatic thoughts.

C: Right. So, if your situation still sucks

K: Yeah.

C: Like, on Twitter, when a lot of disabled people were like, “I don’t want to be told to do CBT.”

K: Yeah.

C: And, like, no. It’s not going to fix what’s wrong with you physically.

KK: And it’s not going to teach you how to cope with disability.

C: No.

K: It just – CBT is directed specifically changing how you – your automatic thought about things. And a lot of people come in and say, “yes. That’s what I want to do.” And then I say, okay. We can do – let’s do 10 minutes of CBT and see if that’s what you really want.

C: Mhm.

K: and then I tell them, “let’s do 10 minutes of compassion focused therapy” as that’s what I prefer to do, “and see if that’s what you want.” But those aren’t – those are – people who come in like that I feel like are seasoned therapeutic hands.

C: Right, right.

K: like, they’ve been through therapy, they understand therapy. So, in trying to explain what I do – because we own a multimedia company that our son, Rasta, runs for us. You have the nontraditional job of being a certified – brag on yourself for a minute because you got a really good certification recently, and I don’t think we’ve shared it with our Musick Notes yet.

C: Yeah. So, I’m a data engineer.

K: Officially. Sorry, I’m excited.

C: That’s my job title.

K: Yeah.

C: And I recently got the Google Cloud Platform Certifications, so I am a… Google professional cloud-certified data engineer.

K: Yeah. And that’s really impressive if you’re in the industry. (laughs)

C: And the swag has not arrived yet, but I’ve ordered some swag for passing it.

K: (laughs)

C: And Kisstopher told me, specifically, “if you pass this test, you are not allowed to order swag.”

K: Yes, I did.

C: But

K: And I knew when he looked at me, that he had probably already ordered swag.

C: But when I passed the test, Google sent me a code for free swag. So, I have not paid for any swag, so I feel like I have honored the spirit of the agreement to not order swag.

K: Oh my god. Y’all see what I’m working with. The Musick Notes are always – in my mind, the Musick Notes always take my side.

C: Okay.

K: Like, we don’t need anymore swag.

C: Okay. So, I’m gonna

K: so, what swag did you get?

C: I’m going to tell you live. Right? So, people can see how wrong you are.

K: (laughs) Did you get a t-shirt?

C: No.

K: Then you’ve lost me already.

C: No, I haven’t lost you. Because there’s one other thing you like.

K: Pens. Keychains.

C: Neither of those.

K: (laughs)

C: I got a hoodie in your size.

K: Oh, you got a hoodie. I love hoodies, but I’m done with the hoodie phase of my life.

C: You think you’re done with the hoodie phase of your life.

K: I have all the hoodies I want.

C: But they might wear out.

K: They won’t. So, you – I’m

C: I have a space in the closet for it already.

K: wow, I feel so bad for you. You just

C: (laughs)

K: You failed so – like, that’s a faceplant.

C: (laughs) Is it?

K: You faceplanted. Oh man.

C: Oh man. I Googled all over myself.

K: You did. I’m so sorry for you.

C: (laughs)

K: It’s okay, Musick Notes. Send him love. Send him heart emojis. He needs them. Because that was bad. And public. I’m – as your best friend, I’m here to comfort you.

C: They include a sticker and a facemask, too.

K: Oh, wow.

C: (laughs)

K: Two other things we don’t want (laughs) He’s like, “I know something you’ll love” and then when I list all of the things I’m currently into, he’s like, “no, but wait. It’s something that you haven’t been into for over a decade.” Over a decade.

C: Yeah.

K: I haven’t been – in the United States – he’s making fun of me because in the United

C: I’m not making fun of you.

K: You are making fun of me because we would go – every time we would go to San Francisco from Santa Clara, which is about 60 minutes south of San Francisco in California, you would ask me, “do you want to bring a hoodie?” And I’m like, “no, no. It’s warm.” And then every time we would get to San Francisco, I’m like, “it’s so cold. I need to buy a hoodie.” So, the reason I have so many hoodies is because I wouldn’t account for how windy San Francisco is.

C: Mm.

K: and I have this thing that if wind touches my skin at all it gives me a chill.

C: Yes, you do.

K: And, so, like even – but that’s changed recently, I think.

C: Yeah.

K: Like in the past two years or so?

C: I think so.

K: Yeah. So, that’s – that was our ramble. I don’t know if we really talked about unusual jobs in Japan, but do we ever really talk about what I’m thinking about, or is that just… an illusion?

C: I think

K: What is this podcast? We don’t know. It’s a podcast.

C: Yes.

K: Where we – it’s us saying words to each other.

C: We agree it’s not a radio show, but beyond that, who knows?

K: (laughs) We don’t know what it is, but we’re back to our usual content of digressions and disarray, and whatever I’m thinking about as always. And my thoughts will be more chipper because… the U.S. election is ovah.

C: Yes.

K: It’s done. So… yay. Yay. Yay. And, so, if you want to know what’s going on with Chad’s book – which is *super* exciting! I’m super excited. I’m – like… over the moon. But you are breaking hearts globally.

C: I am.

K: You are breaking hearts globally. So, follow us on over to Patreon and find out how Chad’s book is breaking hearts on a global scale. (laughs)

C: Talk to you there.

K: Thank you for being a Musick Note. We appreciate you listening this week. And talk to you next week.

C: Bye.

K: Bye.