K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about why I am the way I am.

C: I think about that a lot, too.

K: (laughs)

C: Why is she so fabulous?

K: (laughs) So, I have a lot of weird dichotomies in that I’m severely disabled and… I have a rare blood disease called hereditary coproporphyria, which we’ve talked about before. And I have lupus. And… sometimes, those two things jack me up at the same time.

C: Yeah.

K: And one of the side effects of having hereditary coproporphyria is that anytime I have anything done to my body – specifically, if my body is cut – my body just torments me. So, for the past month, month and a half now, my face – the left – the right side of my face has just been tormented because I have titanium. Titanium has been planted in my face and up into my cheek.

C: Right.

K: And… I can feel it. And I just want to dig it out. Like, I wake up every morning with wanting to dig it out and then adjusting to it and then accepting this new pain that I’m going to feel the rest of my life. And lying to my doctor about the fact that it doesn’t hurt.

C: Mhm.

K: Because if I tell my doctor it hurts, he’s going to want to remove it, and he’s going to put some other thing in my face that he thinks is not going to hurt. But I have like a… pin in my hip that I feel – no, I have a shaving on my hip that happened years and years ago that I still have pain from.

C: Yeah, you had an osteochondroma removed.

K: Yeah. So, every time I’ve ever had surgery, and I’ve had numerous surgeries, I feel traumatic pain because my body makes adhesions.

C: Right.

K: An adhesion is scar tissue or reattachment, so, eventually, I will have to have another surgery on my face to remove scar tissue.

C: Mhm.

K: And it’s a vicious, endless cycle of having scar tissue removed.

C: Yes.

K: And so, I just tend to let the adhesions adhere, but they’re extremely painful. So, today, I’m in pain. I’m a little bit off kilter – off-center – because I’m having a porphyria attack, and I’m feeling the mental aspects of that. And that’s confusion, frustration, irritability, and just feeling like everything I’m saying makes nonsense. Makes – see – mmm. And the ability to say what I intend to say.

C: Yes.

K: Because I did not mean to say everything I say makes nonsense. But that’s the exact thing I was thinking; “everything I say makes nonsense.”

C: Right.

K: Rather than saying everything’s nonsensical. So, we recorded an episode before this episode.

C: We did.

K: And I hated it.

C: Yes.

K: Because I felt incoherent and pissed off. Because I actually did research before the episode, and I didn’t talk about any of my talking points. Because I didn’t take notes. I did research, but I didn’t take notes.

C: Maybe we’ll talk about that one some other time. But I think today

K: I don’t think so.

C: Okay.

K: But I don’t know because I didn’t write it down on the list.

C: So, there are a lot of different varieties of porphyria. Kisstopher knows this already, I’m telling you, listener.

K: He’s allowing me to drink tea but go on babe.

C: Yes. And some are cutaneous, which means they affect the skin, and some are hepatic, which means they affect the liver, and hereditary coproporphyria is the only one that is both.

K: Yeah.

C: And the hepatic porphyrias also can cause mental disturbance when there is an active attack.

K: And, so, they suspect that King George had porphyria.

C: Yes.

K: So – which I don’t like at all. I don’t like that assumption. And I hate the movie “The Madness of King George”. I watched it, and I don’t like the description of porphyria – of me being mad.

C: Mhm.

K: Or crazy. But, as a therapist, I find that offensive. Because, no, I have a disorder. I have disordered thinking. And disordered thinking – the clinical definition of disordered thinking – is when the way that you think is disrupting the way you would like your life to function. So, disordered thinking is personal to each and every individual.

C: Yes.

K: So, there’s no such thing as crazy.

C: Some people have disordered thinking about money or about jobs or about living conditions – it can be about anything.

K: And, if you follow us on Twitter – if you don’t follow us on Twitter, why not?

C: What are you doing here?

K: Right?

C: You’re welcome, but what are you doing here?

K: (laughs) How’d you find us? That would be interesting. But we’re @TheMusicks on Twitter. And, like, you should follow us because it gives you a pretty good insight into what’s going on with us day to day. And sometimes insights into the episodes but usually not.

C: Usually not.

K: Yeah, we don’t usually

C: Because we record in advance, so they can be transcribed.

K: But, no, because we’re literally recording this one the week that – so, okay, technically we’re recording in advance. I love my autistic husband. We’re recording on a Sunday. This is going to drop on a Wednesday on Patreon. And then it’ll air

C: On Thursday but yeah.

K: Okay it’ll drop on Thursday on Patreon, but it will air to the public a week from this Thursday.

C: Correct.

K: So, therefore, we have recorded this episode early. I contend that

C: Ten days early.

K: Right? And I’m like, no. That’s just the system. Everybody knows you don’t record the day of. We’re not a live podcast.

C: There are those news podcasts that record in the morning and release in the afternoon.

K: Okay. So, I have a rant that I want to say.

C: You should say it, then.

K: So, I can’t even remember dude’s first name. DeFranco? What’s his first name?

C: There’s Anny DeFranco and there’s James Franco.

K: No, there’s a guy DeFranco news on YouTube.

C: Okay, I don’t know.

K: He pissed me off, and so, like – so, this is relevant to porphyria.

C: Okay.

K: So, Kisstopher not on porphyria comes across a YouTube video that is offensive, stops watching the video, and moves on with her life. Kisstopher on porphyria comes across a video that she doesn’t like, so DeFranco said that… the historic win in Oklahoma, where the court ruled that the land was stolen from the Indigenous people – which it was. Every inch of the United States was stolen from Indigenous people. Either by war or manipulation. But it was all stolen land. And I am Indigenous, and that does not affect my opinion on this, and that has nothing to do with my porphyria. That’s just a fact.

C: That’s an opinion you always hold.

K: It is a fact.

C: Yes, it is a fact.

K: It is not an opinion. It is a historical fact. Facts are facts. But you see how rigid I’m being with Chad?

C: See, I think you don’t own the fact. I think the fact is global. Everybody has access to the fact. So, you have the opinion that this fact is important.

K: Yeah, so this is an important fact. There was a historic judgment that the land is tribal land. And then… this total wackamole said that, “oh, now they’re living in Indian country.”

C: Mhm.

K: And that pissed me off like a nuclear bomb went off in my head. I don’t normally watch this person – I don’t know who this person was, but apparently, they’re a really big youtuber – and because I watch a YouTube news, they thought – I think it’s like Billy DeFranco or something? I don’t know. I don’t respect him enough to learn his name.

C: I thought he was the guy who sold ShamWow. Billy DeFranco.

K: Was here?

C: No, that was Billy Hayes. And he died.

K: Okay. But this dude has pissed me off so bad – can’t remember his name – but I am searching out his videos and systematically watching precisely two minutes of them and then disliking the video just to mess with his analytics.

C: Mhm.

K: Like, what am I doing? I don’t like this person. Just go on with my life.

C: Yes.

K: There are plenty of racist assholes on YouTube.

C: Right?

K: And, yes, dude. You’re a racist asshole. If you think it’s Indian country, you’re a racist asshole. I have family members that call themselves Indian. That is fine. They can do that. I don’t agree with them. I don’t like it. I find it cringy, but they have the right to do that. I also have family that refer to each other as “my nigga” or a “down nigga” – they can do that. Okay. That’s their right. I find it cringy. But they are Black. They can use that word. That dude cannot. Indigenous people and Native Americans can choose to call themselves Indians if they choose to call themselves Indians. But you, white dude, cannot. This is my brain on porphyria. Everything pisses me off. I have no tolerance for anything.

C: Yeah.

K: Normally, when I’m not on porphyria, I realize that the world is completely racist. That Indigenous people aren’t given a second thought in the United States.

C: That it’s still called the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

K: Yes. And you have to have your certified Indian blood card.

C: Right.

K: But it’s like the NAACP – I don’t even like to say what those letters stand for.

C: Or the UNCF. The whole thing of it. Yeah.

K: Yeah. I like HBC because they get it right. Historically Black Colleges. Why won’t these

C: HBCU because the universities, too.

K: Yeah. Thank you. So, like, I can’t let things go.

C: Yeah when you have porphyria on board.

K: Yeah, when I have porphyria on board, I care about everything, and I’m just so furious. Like – so, everybody knows that I’ve been investigating the doomsday 2015 – when I say everybody

C: 2050.

K: 2050. Yeah. Not 2015. See, I misspeak. There’s 2050 – there’s a bunch of vegans’ groups. And I’m going to go off on vegans here, and I don’t give a shit. Because I know they’re like

C: So, you’re saying veganism as a political and moral philosophy rather than just a state of not eating meat or animal products.

K: Correct. So… here’s my thing. So, I was a vegan as a child. And I was hardcore, like… what’s that famous actor that doesn’t use soap?

C: Brad Pitt?

K: Woody Allen. No, not Woody Allen. Woody Allen’s a horrible person.

C: Brad Pitt?

K: No. He was in the Hunger Games. His father’s an assassin, or his father was a hitman.

C: Woody Harrelson.

K: Woody Harrelson. Yes. And, like (laughs) if Woody Harrelson finds out about this, or Woody Allen, and they don’t like what I said – first of all I’m going to feel like I did something that either one of them even heard about us.

C: That they found out.

K: Yeah.

C: Well, and Woody Harrelson, like – yeah, his whole thing, but his father – his father being a convicted hitman is the least of it.

K: Yeah, but, no, my family was like… Woody Harrelson. We cooked our food with the freaking sun.

C: Yes.

K: They built an oven, like they dug it out, and it was solar-powered. So, maybe we were more hardcore because he does raw, and he doesn’t use solar energy, which is so weird, to cook his food.

C: That is weird.

K: Woody, why don’t you cook your food using solar energy?

C: Solar ovens are very efficient depending on where you live. Like, if you live in Seattle, it’s not a great choice.

K: Yeah. So, we were in Santa Clara, and we did that, and we grew all of our own food. And we didn’t eat any animal products. Our clothing did not have any animal products, and, yes, we actually grew the stuff our clothes were made from. Yes, we were that hardcore. So… being that hardcore, my mother – who had porphyria and hypoglycemia – and me having porphyria and lupus, we both became deathly ill.

C: Yeah.

K: So, we had to go to the doctors because our kidneys and livers were shutting down, and we just weren’t healthy at all, and they were like, “you have to eat animal products.” And my mom was crying and begging the doctor for a solution other than killing animals.

C: “Can’t I just eat some peanuts” or something. Like, no, it’s not a protein issue.

K: So, trigger warning: I’m about to say some really graphic, horrible things about animals.

C: Okay.

K: Trigger warning: I’m about to say some really horrible, graphic things about animals. This same woman with porphyria on brain – so, then, Alum Rock Park was closing. She took all of the animals from the Alum Rock Park zoo. Literally took all of them and brought them into our home.

C: Like the children’s petting zoo, right?

K: Yeah, the children’s petting zoo. So, we had ducks, we had snakes, we had rabbits, we had goats – which I don’t know why we had goats, we had no yards – but we were growing corn, so the goats ate our corn. It was a whole thing. She wakes up one day with porphyria on the brain, the world is going to end, these animals are never going to get rehomed, and kills all of them.

C: Mhm.

K: Because she can’t stand the thought of the future of these animals being so horrific, and she didn’t think anybody would foster them, and we couldn’t keep them forever, and they were never going to reopen the zoo, so she killed all of them.

C: Yeah.

K: This is the same woman who was crying literally weeks before about having to eat meat.

C: Yeah.

K: And, no, we did not eat any of the meat. Which, later on in life, like – so, I went straight away to “this is horrible” and crying. And… my brother was just like, “are we eating this?” (laughs) Because we like – you know, we ate everything that we… just thought there was no way we’re going to kill these animals and not eat them. And then we left, and then – horrible story – my biological father came – he had got himself checked into a mental ward because he was an alcoholic, and he was having a complete alcoholic mental breakdown and hallucinating form the drugs and alcohol he had been on.

C: I was going to say that’s probably more the drugs than the alcohol.

K: Yeah. And, so, he got checked into a mental hospital. He snuck out of it, and he was planning to murder my mother, and he came in, and there was just all these dead animal bodies everywhere. And that was the day he decided he shouldn’t mess with her anymore.

C: And, spoiler alert, neither one of them murdered each other.

K: No, they didn’t. So, this is my brain on porphyria, so I don’t even know why I’m talking right now about my biological father being terrified of my biological mother except for maybe the fact it’s connected to activism because she taught me to be an activist and taught me that there is no greater force on earth than her. And then when I was – I believed her, and then when I able to emotionally and mentally dominate her, I became the greatest force on earth.

C: Mhm.

K: So, I believe – like, when I have porphyria – I understand that there are people more powerful than me. But on porphyria, I think “are they relevant to my life?”

C: I think that’s a reasonable question for anybody to ask themselves. “Are these people relevant to my life?”

K: Because Trump – completely not relevant to my life. And trip on this, I live in Japan, but Abe – not relevant to my life. Nothing Abe has done the entire time that he’s been prime minister has affected my life. And I’ve been to several talks where the man has spoken and made pledges and promises about things that would have affected my life, but luckily

C: If he had actually done them.

K: Yeah. But, luckily, he’s impotent. So (laughs) as a politician.

C: Yeah.

K: (laughs) I don’t know anything about the man’s sex life.

C: Thank you for clarifying that you’re not observing his potency. (laughs)

K: Yeah. Like… because then that would change this podcast.

C: Okay.

K: You would be so mad if I knew.

C: I would.

K: But would you be mad if I found out because they had released some illegal porn of his?

C: No.

K: If – see, this is another thing about porph-brain – if – because now I’m really wondering – if they released an illegal porn of Prime Minister Abe, (laughs) would you be freaked out if I watched it?

C: No.

K: But it’s illegal.

C: But you and I – like – talked early, early early

K: It’s illegal in Japan to show pubic hair in porn.

C: It is not illegal to show pubic hair.

K: (laughs) It is illegal to show pubic hair in photographic pornography.

C: It is not.

K: Okay, what is it illegal then?

C: It’s illegal to show genitals, and this is defined super narrowly.

K: Okay.

C: It’s defined super, super narrowly so, small digression, but…

K: Wait but Chad knows this because on a flight from the United States to Japan he sat next to a pornographer. A Japanese pornographer.

C: Yeah, that’s a whole other conversation because

K: (laughs) Which I feel is super relevant, but go ahead: talk about what’s legal and illegal in porn?

C: So, you can’t show… the vulva unblurred. And you can’t show penis unblurred.

K: Okay.

C: But you can show… an asshole unblurred.

K: Okay.

C: So, unless it’s being penetrated, and then you can’t show that.

K: Okay.

C: And those are basically the three rules.

K: But who wants to see an asshole that’s not being penetrated if they’re watching porn?

C: Japanese porn is its own thing that follows different conventions than American porn. So, in Japanese straight porn

K: Yeah, there was a point in time of our life when we were doing Japanese porn.

C: Yeah, so, in Japanese straight porn for example

K: (laughs) Because we had seen all the other kinds.

C: Yeah. The man – the man is always going to have his nipples sucked for a really long time.

K: Yes, which is just so bizarre.

(laughter)

K: Sorry, I have to do a Twitter after dark moment. That’s how we discovered Chad would not enjoy that.

(laughter)

K: Chad does not like sex in the style of Japanese porn. I didn’t find it that invigorating either other than that it was something different.

C: Mhm.

K: And I was just like, “well, we haven’t done this.” And I have this obsession – obs – this completely obsession. If Chad hasn’t done something. If something hasn’t been done to his body in the sexual arena, I want to do it.

C: Yeah.

K: “Have you ever had this done?” He’s like, “I wouldn’t like that.” “How do you know if you’ve never had it done?”

C: I think there a lot of things you can know that you wouldn’t like without having them done to you.

K: And then you tried to do that thing where you try to outdo me. You’re like, “have you ever had this done?” “No.” “Do you think you would like it?” “No.” “Okay, let’s do it.” And I was like, “right on.”

C: (laughs)

K: You were like, “this is not okay.” But I was like, “mm. I still think it is.”

(laughs)

K: I had his consent. I’m big on consent.

C: Yes, you are.

K: And there is a thing called consensual nonconsent. Not my bag. Not my bag. So, with all of this scatterbrained-ness that’s going on – because I do feel very scatterbrained – I’m still a therapist.

C: Mhm.

K: And, so, that brings us back to the 2050 thing and the vegans. Which is h- oh, that’s how I started talking about my parents.

C: Mhm.

K: Because I was like the uber in veganism and the raw food movement and sustainable living.

C: Yeah.

K: we were being the most sustainable that you can be, and what we found through sustainability is that… we were cover for pot growers. Which is a total different digression.

C: Yeah.

K: But we were doing sustainable living, and… we found out that my illness and my mother’s illness meant that the way that we were living was actually going to kill us. And I have spoken to – I know of other former vegans that are like, “you can’t just say veganism and think that that’s the best thing for everybody in the world.” There are people that, if we don’t eat – there are certain proteins and certain amino chains that you can only get from animal products.

C: Yes.

K: And, so, I don’t eat a lot of meat because of my illness.

C: Right.

K: If I eat too much meat, it damages my body as well.

C: Humans are not – as a species – obligate carnivores, which is the term for what you’re saying, but some people are. And you are an obligate carnivore. You must eat meat, or you will die.

K: Yeah. So, one of the things that I love is… your view on centrism because you were the first person who ever articulated, for me, the thing that makes me mad. And you know centrism just like

C: Yeah.

K: Pisses me off to no end. And, so, yeah. Talk about centrism for a minute.

C: So, what you mean by that is the idea that you can come up with one solution for the entire world, and it’s always based on wherever the person who’s doing it is at and impose that, and that’s just going to be the best thing. So that, if they are somewhere that veganism is environmentally responsible, and it… suits their health needs, then that’s what the entire world should do.

K: Yeah.

C: Never mind the areas of the world where veganism is environmentally destructive, or it’d be better to let the animals graze on the natural grasses that humans can’t eat anyway. And then, you know, eat the animals or use the animals’ blood and milk. Like some places in Africa.

K: Yeah.

C: And I don’t find any of these practices, like, strange or exotic. It’s just the way that it’s done there.

K: Well, and, so – and we’re not saying, to be clear, this isn’t just a third world country thing where there are first world countries where doing farming is not the best thing for that country.

C: Yeah.

K: And, so, they don’t.

C: Well, in Alaska, a lot of places that I grew up in Alaska, that’s the relevant part, a lot of the First Nations – the Alaskan natives’ – villages are based around fishing

K: Well, the white folks too, that are living up there.

C: Yeah. But they’re based around fishing or, you know, whaling or seal hunting or different things that kind of make a certain… kind of person just, gasp with “you can’t do that. That’s so awful.”

K: Yeah.

C: But they cannot grow enough crops to sustain themselves.

K: Yeah.

C: It’s just not possible.

K: Yeah. So… I think that… for me… so… to be clear, I have a client who I have to go down this rabbit hole for because part of the way I do therapy – I don’t know how else to do it. My therapist wants me to find a different way to do it. My mentor wants me to find a different way to do it, but, for me, I don’t bullshit any of my clients because I think lying to a client – if you’re a therapist and you lie to a client, to me, I think you’re completely unethical because you are setting them up to fail. And you are setting them up to – if you have a client that has suicidal ideation, and they’re coming to you, and they’re saying, “this thing is making me want to kill myself.” And then you help them come out of that through lies, they’re eventually going to sus out your lie.

C: Yes.

K: And potentially kill themselves because the person they trusted most in all of the world betrayed them.

C: That would be an abuse of that relationship, yes.

K: Yes, so I think – I understand the power dynamic, and I understand the weight of what I’m saying. Because the work that goes on between me and my clients, at least, I don’t know for other therapists, but I can say for me, specifically, it’s a really intimate process.

C: Yeah.

K: We get really, really close, and we share with each other, and we’re really honest with each other. So, I’m completely honest with them because I think honesty fosters honesty.

C: Mhm.

K: So, I have a client – and this will not identify who they are because they don’t talk about this in public, and I do have their permission to discuss this much of their case. Just so everybody knows.

C: Yes.

K: So, they want – they’re feeling suicidal ideation, and they’re feeling like all humans should be eradicated from the earth because humans won’t live in a way where they don’t… kill anything.

C: Mhm.

K: And, so, their belief is that the best thing for the earth is because there is a diet – I forget the name of it – where you don’t kill anything. You live off of parts of plants that still allow the plant to live. And, so… while, yes, you kill the flower or you kill the nut, or… you kill the fruit, but you don’t kill the plant.

C: Well, the – the Jane religion has that as their – I don’t know the name for it, but I know that we had some friends who were Jainists.

K: Yeah.

C: In the U.S. – and they were like, “we don’t eat any root vegetables.” It’s not about not killing the plant; it’s because there are bugs and things in the roots. It’s very specific. They can only eat anything that grows above ground, that is naturally shed from the plant, and…

K: Yeah. And they believe that this will save the earth and stop global warming. And will stop – and they – they were set on this path by this website with this fricking doomsday clock that is literally counting. And it’s – the website’s existed – I’m not going to say the name of it because I can’t remember it – but it’s existed for about five or six years, now, and I’ve been aware of it. I just saw it, went to it, saw it was vegan propaganda, moved on.

C: Right.

K: Because I view it that quickly: vegan propaganda. If… you don’t understand the political side of veganism, and if you don’t know, like, buying a cotton shirt. Vegans will buy a cotton shirt and not think about the fact that even cotton itself – you murder insects.

C: Yeah.

K: And cotton murders the earth. Cotton kills the earth.

C: It does strip a lot of

K: Nothing can be grown after cotton.

C: You have to let the fields lie fallow.

K: Yes. So, cotton is one of the most destructive things that you can grow. Grasses, on the other hand? Not so bad. Depending on the type of grass. So, to me, when vegans come at me because – when I was younger, we went hard – I ask them, like… “do you use this product? Do you eat this thing?” What do you do? “Do you brush your teeth? How do you brush your teeth? What is the product made” – I ask them about all of the different products they use. And I have yet to meet a vegan that is doing veganism in a way that is sustainable for the place that they live.

C: Mhm.

K: I haven’t met one yet. So, if you’re a vegan that lives in Japan who thinks that you can out-vegan me… please hit me up on Twitter. And if you do it while I’m the midst of this porphyria attack, I will enjoy it. I won’t curse you out. I won’t say anything rude or mean to you. But I will be dropping heavy facts, and I will have all of my facts supported – not by government resources – but by independent researchers. And I will go in because this is how hard I go for my clients.

C: Yeah.

K: And, so, for this client, I had to prove to them that that type of life that they’re wanting to lead – what it requires, it requires certain plant materials to naturally grow and be Indigenous to the area.

C: Yeah.

K: That they’re grown in because, for me, I look at invasive plants. And I look at what is best for that plot of land. Like, you can give me any plot of land, and I can find out what’s best for that plot of land because that’s something that my parents were really big on doing. That was the lifestyle that I had before I was ripped from the bosom of my family and put into foster care. (laughs) So, my mind always goes someplace dark when I have a porphyria attack. So, I have my objective mind is like, “girl, you should not be challenging vegans to fights.”

C: (laughs)

K: Like, girl. What are you doing? So, I’m like – I’m touching my left side because I think my left side is my reasonable side because my right hand is my dominant hand. And then on the right side, my thing is like, “no, girl, you need to educate these vegans. They’re doing it wrong. Like, they don’t actually know what is sustainable for the acreage that they live on.”

C: Mhm.

K: Like, where are you living? Are you living in a concrete building? That’s, like, right there. If you are living in a building made of concrete, you have lost the discussion before it even begins. If you own any cotton clothing, you’ve lost the discussion before it begins. Like, what are your clothes made of?

C: Do you won a car?

K: Yes. Do you own a car? Do you take public transportation?

C: Did you boat yourself to Japan?

K: Exactly. Like, how’d you get here? And then if you’re not living in Japan, like, you can pick anywhere in the world and then tell me: how do you get to and from the places that you go? And if it’s any other way than walking, you are not living the way that you are proselytizing and professing that other people should live.

C: Well, and, if you’re on the internet….

K: Yeah. I was going to let that be a gotcha that they didn’t know about.

C: Oh, okay.

K: Like, if you’re listening to this podcast, you’re not vegan. If you won a computer, you’re not vegan.

C: In the way that is going to save the world kind of thing.

K: Yeah, and – and, so, for me, there are vegans on Twitter – most of them have already unfollowed us.

C: Yes.

K: And lots of them have blocked us. (laughs)

C: Well, and I think there’s a difference between a political vegan and a dietary vegan because we do have friends, particularly when we were in the U.S. and we had a lot of Hindu friends. Because we knew a lot of Hindu people who were vegetarian or vegan.

K: Yeah.

C: And our Jainist friends were vegan, so

K: Yeah.

C: I think of that as dietary veganism. It’s not about making the political statement or anything. It’s just about what you, yourself, eat.

K: Well, I had like the most irritating conversation I’ve ever had. Former client. They got fired for this conversation because I do fire clients. We were having a conversation, and they were telling… their child that the other parent – and they know that I use them as an example because I told them, and they gave me permission to tell this story. Which I don’t know why they would give me permission to tell this story, but they did. They told me that Brazilian sugar was okay to eat. That Brazilian sugar did not affect their ranking as a vegan, but honey did. That Japanese, domestic honey was bad.

C: Well, and that’s why I think it becomes a purity test. Because it becomes like, yes, technically, honey is an animal product, and sugar is a plant product. But that doesn’t take the surrounding context into consideration.

K: But the way that sugar is made.

C: Yes, and that’s why I wa

K: It kills insects.

C: It does. And not just insects but – rodents and all kinds of things.

K: And Brazilian sugar?

C: So, that’s what I was saying

K: That rainforest was cut down to

C: It’s a purity test, where you’re like a technical vegan – where you’re fulfilling the requirements to call yourself a vegan, but you’re not fulfilling the intent of what you’re saying you’re fulfilling.

K: And, so, like, their whole thing that they wanted to take me to task for the fact that I had PET in my office, and I had snacks in the front. And… they let their child eat the snacks.

C: Mhm.

K: And it was… a cookie that came from a box that was wrapped in plastic.

C: Yeah.

K: And they let their child eat that cookie while they were going off on me about PET.

C: Mhm.

K: And then I waived the fee on the session because – so, if

C: Yeah, when you fire people, they don’t have to pay for that.

K: So, if we’re in a session, and I’m your therapist, and I say, “hold on a second, I just want to let you know that this session is free, and we’re going to have a conversation” that means that I’m about to just go in in a very polite and professional way, and you will not be my client at the end of the session. And the reason being was not because they were vegan but because they were teaching their child a lie.

C: Yes.

K: They were teaching their child a lie, and they were vilifying me to create distance between me and their child, so that I could not effectively be their therapist because I was telling their child truth and facts about what’s vegan and what is not vegan. And why it was necessary for us to try and repopulate the bee population.

C: Mhm.

K: I wasn’t proselytizing eating honey. I wasn’t proselytizing doing anything with the honey. I was just saying that

C: We need bees.

K: We need bees.

C: Yeah.

K: That was it. Bees and butterflies. That was it. And… then she went off on me and like went in. And I said, “so, why are you allowing them to eat sugar?”

C: Mhm.

K: And she was like, “sugar’s not bad.” And I was like, “in Brazil, do you eat sugar?” And I was like, every – on a train, on a plane, in a box with a fox. And she was like, “sugar is never bad.” And, so, for me, being an Indigenous person, I feel a connection to every Indigenous population in the world that was destroyed through colonialism. And, so, when you talk about sugar to me – yes, I consume it – but it immediately pisses me off.

C: Yeah, and you – we went to Hawaii, and Hawaii tourism is its own thing, but – and we toured the… the sugar museum.

K: Yes.

C: Where they talked about how sugar is made, and what it did to the local culture and economy and all of that.

K: And so – and also, sugar slavery – the slave owners that grew sugar were some of the most horrific slave owners. So, like, if you look at Jamaican and the Caribbean slave owners – they were much worse than the American slave owners. All slave owners are horrific people. So, sugar, to me, is one of the most addictive substances on earth and one of the most destructive… things on earth. And, when you look at the history of sugar, it’s horrific. And, so, when you’re telling me that you give… more fucks about bees, but you’re not doing anything to increase the bee population – and you’re eating candy without reading the ingredients of the candy, which… you know, there could be honey in that candy. You don’t know because you didn’t read the ingredients list.

C: Could be

K: Because you can’t read Japanese.

C: Could be gelatin in it.

K: Yes. So, I’m like – I said, “this is the” I have vegan snacks in my snack area, and I said, “this is the only thing that’s vegan.” And I do have one snack that is vegan for the vegan kids. And… this parent who’s going off on me let them eat something that was sugared. And, so, for me, sugar – if you’re going to come at me and… you’re going to tell me that the way I’m living is wrong because of PET, you should come at me harder for eating sugar than you should for eating PET – for using PET.

C: I was going to say you don’t eat your PET.

K: Yeah, I don’t eat my PET. So, that’s porph-brain, but how passionate I am about everything… it does affect every aspect of my life, having porphyria.

C: Right.

K: And, so, I do my best to… schedule my clients according to my porph-brain. There are certain clients that I know that my porph-brain just… it’s not healthy for them to have sessions with me. And, for those clients, they know that I have porphyria. They know that they have certain beliefs that I don’t believe, and I say, “these things we shouldn’t talk about in the therapeutic arena”, and I had asked this client to not talk about their veganism because I had spoke to them privately one on one.

C: Mhm.

K: And showed them – and actually gave them, like… research and gave them research by Brazilian researchers in their native language of Portuguese and said, “please educate yourself because what you’re saying is harmful and is incorrect. And the reason that it’s harmful and it’s incorrect is because you’re saying it to a child.”

C: Mhm.

K: “And… you’re attacking everybody else in this child’s life and making this child have emotional problems because of this.”

C: Yeah.

K: So… if you’re proselytizing anything, think about why you’re proselytizing that, and is it appropriate as a universal?

C: Yeah. I would agree with that. As somebody whose parents like… intentionally isolated them from many dissenting viewpoints and… d- were not proposing something that was a universal good. Like, I think that there are few universal goods. I think there are universal goods. Like… you know, be kind

K: Don’t be a racist.

C: Right. Nobody is harmed by you not being a racist.

K: Yeah.

C: If everybody was not a racist, the world would be a better place.

K: Yeah.

C: But I think saying, you know… be vegetarian. If everybody in the world was vegetarian, the world would not be a better place. A higher percentage of people could be vegetarian with the world getting better, but that’s not the universal. So, I think the purity tests that people can have… end up being counterproductive. I think a lot about – I don’t think a lot about – in this specific context, I think a lot about when I was in high school and people talk about being the “technical virgin.”

K: (laughs) Yeah.

C: I was – I graduated high school when I was 16. I was super naïve. So, I did not know what that was then.

K: (laughs)

C: I later found out, and I was like… “well, okay, yeah. I can see why they call it ‘technical’ virgin, but…” it’s where you’re fulfilling the letter of something but completely defeating the spirit of it.

K: Yeah.

C: So, if you think that people should be vegan to make the world… population more sustainable, then I think that you need to look also not just at veganism but at what the, you know, Indigenous peoples in each area have done. Because, before colonists arrived, they had self-sustaining local economies.

K: Yes.

C: And I include European communities in this.

K: Yes.

C: Europe was not always monolithic and trading across all of Europe. There were local communities that were

K: And there are still Indigenous people that…

C: Yeah.

K: Still have their culture intact

C: Right. So, if you look at that, then those are adapted to the local environment. Like, if you say, “you should” you know “never eat ostrich because it has to be imported.” Well, that’s not true if you live somewhere that ostriches are endemic to the area.

K: Yeah.

C: So, I just think that… when people get focused on… fulfilling the letters of things rather than looking at the overall goal that it can go awry. And, when you’re having issues with porphyria, you tend to become very… passionate about people not doing that.

K: Yeah. Well, and I think, too – I have clients that are feeling – clients who have been… made to feel suicidal because they became friends with a vegan

C: Mhm.

K: And they’re being exposed to things that they can’t handle. And concepts that they can’t handle because they don’t actually have the power to change the thing that caused this thing to happen.

C: Right.

K: They become… they feel despair and complete and utter helplessness.

C: Yeah.

K: And I say there are some communities, like, PET – specifically, I think there’s a beautiful movement going on in a lot of African countries with PET. And… this one man was like, “wow this river is now dammed up by PET bottles.” And so, he said, “what can I do about this?”

C: Yeah.

K: He said, “okay, we have a fishing economy. We have fishermen who don’t have boats. Who can’t afford boats.” And so, he just gathered up all the PET and made a boat and gave the boat away. And now he has a non-profit that gathers up all of the PET – and it’s a country-wide movement, and it’s spreading throughout the entire continent for fishing communities. That’s not a one-shot fix-all for every community.

C: If you live somewhere that it’s not a fishing community, that’s not helpful, but I have seen PET bottles filled with dirt to build housing.

K: Yeah. So, they’re – in a different community in Africa, they took all of the PET bottles and made greenhouses.

C: Mhm.

K: And they have different fanning and aerating systems and all of that, but… it – because not all of Africa is super-sunny all of the time.

C: Yeah.

K: Is the way people imagine it. It’s a continent. It has a diverse landscape.

C: Yes.

K: And, so…

C: There are rainforests and deserts and all kinds of

K: Yeah. So, I think to say one thing is universally bad or to say that one solution is universally good is… naïve. And… I think

C: And often harmful. I think about, like, the quinoa in Ecuador. Which quinoa was the grain that the local people ate, and then it got touted as a super food.

K: Yeah.

C: And, you know, now all of it is taking up by exports, and the local people don’t have anything to eat.

K: Yes. But I think looking at another human being and telling them – so, a joke that I have is I’m a bad human.

C: Mhm.

K: And… (laughs) it came from that one client screaming at me, “you’re a bad human. You’re destroying the earth. You are a plight.” And like, really going in on me. And I didn’t yell. I just… thought, “that’s cool because I am a bad human. I do have capacity to do bad.” So, there are times that I’m bad, and I’m always human, so now it’s a joke: I’m a bad human.

C: Bad human. No cookies.

K: Yeah.

(laughter)

K: This one client is going around making people feel like crap.

C: Yeah.

K: And driving people to suicide.

C: Mhm.

K: Driving people to where they wonder if killing themselves in an eco-friendly way would be better for the earth. And, if you’re that type of vegan, you’re the fucking problem.

C: Yeah.

K: You’re the fucking problem. So, I go down these rabbit holes and deal with these things, and I just think… what a beautiful, compassionate person that this other person is who’s being victimized by this really militant view, and I think… as soon as your brain starts to go someplace militant, where you think there’s only one truth and light and way…

C: Mhm.

K: That there’s ignorance in it. You know. And I think that there is – I do believe in the power of one. I do believe that there is a single person that can make a huge difference for communities, and I highlight those people, and I highlight… you know, like, for me, the person who… went around all of Nagoya and found all of the vegan restaurants in Nagoya and actually taught a lot of the restaurants how to be vegan – how to prepare food for vegan clients. I think, okay, good vegan.

C: Yeah.

K: But a vegan that’s driving somebody to want to self-harm because they slip up or don’t do something

C: “You only deserve to live if you live the way I say”

K: Yeah. But they’re eating sugar? Like… no.

C: Yeah.

K: Just no. So, I’m fighting this… this 2050 clock, and, if you’ve been following us on Twitter, yo know it’s been like, doing me in. Because I… go in on the depressive part of it – like, I’m going to take this as my truth. I’m going to allow it to depress me, and then I’m going to dig myself out of the hole.

C: Mm.

K: And, so, I went to the place of… being depressed and just believing this as the truth. And then… using my objective brain to say, “okay, what, objectively, are the facts? And if I apply what this website is proselytizing for me to apply – if I apply it to here, in Japan, will I be making the city of Nagoya a better place?”

C: Yeah.

K: And I got to the answer of… no. Some of the things, yes. Some of the things, no. And, so, the things that will make Nagoya a better place; I’m looking at are there organizations I place that I can connect with that will magnify the actions that one person does. And, so, the reason that I feel so angry is, one, porphyria, but, two, there’s this person who’s not even living their ideas.

C: Mhm.

K: Who… are – who is proselytizing to other people and causing very gentle, loving, beautiful people to feel horrible about themselves. And, again, they’re eating fucking sugar. So… (laughs) I feel like, if you are eating sugar and wearing cotton… and you’re proselytizing to me, then you’ve lost. And… I find it interesting that we had the conversation, and then this client was like, “okay, I want you to have this conversation in front of my child.” And I was like, “no. There’s nothing – your child will not be served by me having a conversation with you and then them agreeing with me and not agreeing with you because you are their parent. And that relationship is holy and sanctified, and I’m not going to harm your child to make a political point. Because, at the end of the day, whether or not you eat sugar or honey affects me not at all.”

C: Yeah.

K: And I think that’s where people need to get – like, they need to look at the big picture of where they’re at and does it actually – is this person doing harm? And this person is doing harm by what they’re saying to other people. But I feel like the people come to me and become my clients – I don’t tell them that I know this horrible person. And, yes, I think they’re horrible. And that this horrible person is causing other people harm. But I am able to combat it.

C: Yeah.

K: And I’m not out seeking, and I’m not out proselytizing against this person because I don’t want to harm them either.

C: Yes.

K: I just want them to realize what they’re doing is harmful. And… they’re not going to realize that. And, so, for me… that means that they shouldn’t be my client because… I think they’re a horrible person. And they’re not working on the things that they agree makes them horrible. Like, they agree making someone else feel like harming themselves is a horrible thing, but they won’t stop the behaviors that are making people feel like harming themselves. So, like, the swirliness of my thinking, and my obsessiveness – I don’t feel like I’m obsessed with anything – but how weird things connect, and how they always connect to something really dark is porphyria.

C: Yes, it is. I’ve seen it happen.

K: So, what would be the difference? Like, when I go down these rabbit holes for clients, and I don’t have porphyria?

C: I think it’s a much quicker process. I think you take it less personally, and you just approach it from a very methodical… viewpoint.

K: Mm.

C: Of, okay, what part of this is accurate? What part of this is inaccurate? Factually. Rather than trying to find the emotional inaccuracy or trying to find the hypocrisy.

K: Mm.

C: I find when you have porphyria on board, you want to find the hypocrisy rather than just the inaccuracy.

K: Mm.

C: “How can I combat this with truth” rather than “how can I combat this with righteousness?”

K: Yeah. The righteous indignation. I’m much more righteous when I have porphyria. And I feel like I did all the talking this podcast.

C: Well, I’ll do more talking on the take two. If people head on over to Patreon.

K: Yeah. Thanks for listening. I appreciate it. And… next week, I should be feeling better, but I don’t know.

C: Talk to you then.

K: Bye.

C: Bye.