K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about last week’s episode. I just can’t get it out of my mind.

C: It was immemorable. Or very memorable?

K: (laughs)

C: Unforgettable?

K: So, I have a lot of… ignorance and bias that I’m… working my way out of. And, so, my – one of the biggest spots of ignorance for me is geography. I do not understand where things are geographically at all. And I completely blame the U.S. 1970s California – Northern California – education system because it wasn’t until I met you – it wasn’t until in my 30s – that I learned that the United States and Canada are not geographically the same size. That… I always thought that the United States was half of North Cali- half of North America, rather. Half of North America. And that the United States was geographically bigger than Canada when you added Alaska and Hawaii. And I thought that the Pacific Islands – or Pacific nations – were all Hawaii. 

Like I didn’t know that Samoa was a different country and not part of Hawaii and not part of the United States. And, so, when I grew up – I think that the Philippines were still a territory.  Or at least, in my books – I was taught that the Philippines and Samoa – and Puerto Rico – were territories of the United States, and that Hawaii had recently been made a state is the way I remember it being taught to me in elementary school. And I also remember being taught that… all of North America was populated by Chinese people who had, during the Neolithic era, had crossed the land bridge from China to the United States. So, it wasn’t until you and I met that I found out that Russia is closer to Alaska than China. 

C: Yeah. 

K: So, I thought the land bridge connected China and the United States.

C: And the land bridge is where the Bering Strait is now. And the Bering Strait goes between Alaska and Russia.

K: But I was also surprised that you can’t just walk from China to Russia. That they aren’t connected. That they don’t share a border.

C: China and Russia do share a border.

K: Okay, I don’t feel like that’s right. I feel like that’s something I thought that was wrong. 

C: No, you’re right on that.

K: Okay. So, I’m so confused.

C: So, Russia is part of Asia. And, often, people will say, “well, it’s Eastern Europe.” And I think people want to call Russia Eastern Europe because “the people there are white, so it must be Europe, right?” 

K: Yeah, and you taught me – so, I watch a lot of U.K. television shows, and one day I commented on, “it’s super racist to call people from India Asians. Why are they calling them Asians?”

C: (laughs) Yeah.

K: I was like, “that’s so messed up. They’re not Asians, dude.” And you were like, “no, they are Asians.” And, so, I’ve asked my friends from India, “are you Asian?” And they were like, “yes, we’re Asian.” 

C: Yes.

K: “Like, we’re the subcontinent of Asia. That’s where we’re the subcontinent of.”

C: Yes. 

K: So, I don’t understand geography. So, I say ignorant things based on my misunderstanding of geography. Which is not the same as bias. So, I’m not biased against believing that the people who inhabited North America shared no ancestry with people from Asia. I’m not biased against that. What I learned is that they do. That, ethnically, that they do. That’s what I learned in school.

C: Right. 

K: So, if I’m wrong, I’m ignorant. Educate me. So, just so everybody knows, we haven’t gotten any backlash from the last episode, but you were just like – really just like, “wow, you are so off-base” afterwards that it made me like, “am I though?” 

C: Yes. You are.

(laughter)

K: See, I’m still feeling like, “am I though?” But I didn’t feel enough to even google it. I didn’t even google it.

C: We haven’t gotten commentary on it because it’s only been a week, so we’ve just gotten our transcripts back. But nobody’s listened to it yet.

K: Yeah. And so – well, the people that are on Patreon – our patrons have listened to it.

C: They will have listened to it by the time this comes out. 

K: Yeah.

C: But they haven’t listened to it yet.

K: Yeah, and they will have listened to it because this is coming out the week after our last episode.

C: Correct, yes.

K: So, you don’t know – so, here’s the thing that Chad doesn’t know. Chad has no idea when an episode’s coming out, when it’s been transcribed, none of that because Chad doesn’t do any of that. He posts it to the website and the Patreon. But you don’t transcribe it.

C: And I bring my personality.

K: Yeah, and you bring your gorgeousness.

C: Yes.

K: So, you do bring your gorgeousness to every episode. So, what was so upsetting about what I was saying last episode?

C: It wasn’t that it was upsetting. It was that it was wrong. And that it’s been a major point of contention in East Asian history. 

K: There’s been what? A major torrent of what?

C: A major point of contention in East Asian history.

K: It’s a major point of contention in East Asian history?

C: Yes.

K: Okay.

C: So, in China, the majority – the largest ethnic group – is the Han. 

K: Uh-huh.

C: Han Chinese. But that’s not the only ethnic group in China. 

K: Mhm.

C: And… they are a different ethnic group than the primary ethnic group of Korea, which also has multiple ethnic groups. The people in Japan who are not the indigenous people like the Ainu that we mentioned before, but the majority ethnic group here in Japan came over from Korea. So

K: Okay.

C: If you trace it back, we’re all human and yada yada. But

K: See, and that’s my position, and it’s not a yada yada. Which is why we’re doing this episode because no one’s position is a yada yada. I think that race is a social construct just like gender. 

C: Yes, but

K: I don’t think that race and gender are real. And there are some… there are some people who study the brain and say, “well, we have found the location of gender in the brain” and I think, “yeah, you found the place in the brain where people understand social constructs.”

C: Yeah, or you’ve found one specific aspect of it, or.

K: Yes. And I know that – so, I work with, in my practice – I have a lot of trans clients. And my trans clients vary greatly with me on whether or not gender is a social construct. And my cis clients greatly – so, all of my clients vary greatly. And the reason why I separate them – cis, non-binary… trans, and all of that – is because I don’t want anyone from any one of these groups saying, “well, I speak for this group” because no group is a monolith.

C: Okay. You’re not the fucking Lorax.

K: Not the what?

C: Not the Lorax. 

K: What does that mean? You say that all the time, and I don’t know what the fuck that means. 

C: The Lorax is from Doctor Seuss

K: I know it is.

C: And the Lorax says, “I speak for the trees.” So, the Lorax does speak for the trees.

K: Okay.

C: But nobody else speaks for their whole group unless they’ve been elected to speak for their whole group. 

K: And that brings us back to the point that I don’t speak for anyone other than Kisstopher, and I am a member of the Cherokee nation, but I don’t speak for all Cherokee people. And

C: Well, are you member of the Cherokee nation legal entity, or are you a descendant of Cherokee peoples?

K: See, I’m not a member of the Cherokee legal entity. I don’t have a certified Indian blood card. And the reason I don’t have a certified Indian blood card is because, even though my mother was born a – well, my grandmother was born rather – even though my grandmother was born on a reservation, on a Cherokee reservation, and her mother was Cherokee – at that time, they weren’t doing paperwork. So, my grandmother didn’t even have a birth certificate.

C: Yeah.

K: So…

C: I remember talking to her about her birth and such. And… talking to your grandpa about his.

K: Yeah.

C: So, your grandpa, he was clear: “I was born in 1914.”

K: Yeah.

C: And your grandmother was just like, “Well, I know I’m older than Mylan.” 

K: Yes. And that was it. 

C: Yeah.

K: That was the whole thing. And my grandfather actually decided her birthday for her.

C: Mhm.

K: So… it’s not something that’s really… well-known. My grandmother’s origin story. It took a lot – and we talked about it before – to piecemeal it together because it was so long ago. And when we were talking to her about it, she was in her 90s. 

C: Yeah. And you have photographs and documents and things, so you know that it’s not like… like the pervasive myth in white American families. Not all of them, but mine certainly had it, that “oh, in our past, we have Native American blood, so you’re part Native American.”

K: The Elizabeth Warren of it all. (laughs)

C: Yes.

K: I’m sorry if that was a shady moment, but I have to say, I couldn’t get – I can’t get – with Elizabeth Warren, I can’t get past that, man. 

C: Yeah.

K: It bothered me so bad to be like, “well, that’s what I was always told, so that’s what I said.” Like, well, apologize that your history was wrong.

C: Right.

K: Just be like, “wow, I was told this thing.” Apologize. So, that’s what I’m doing right now. I’m practicing what I preach. I’m living the way that I advise people to live, and if I hurt or offended anyone, I’m sorry. I’m sharing my ignorance, and it’s not flippant. I really, really hope I didn’t hurt or upset anyone because I do know ancestry and history is important, and that it does matter. And, like, the history and ancestry of Japanese nationals really does matter.

C: Yeah.

K: And, for me, if someone was trying to tell me that I’m not Native American, I’m like – just because I don’t have a certified Indian blood card – I would feel very hurt. And very rejected.

C: Right. 

K: Which I have had some people from the nation tell me, “well, you have to always make sure to separate yourself out from who has rights and who doesn’t have rights.” And, in terms of under- the various acts of congress in the United States.

C: Yeah, in terms of claiming rights under the treaties, you’re not entitled because you’re not established in a tribe.

K: Yup.

C: But even who is and isn’t established in a tribe is very political, and which tribes are allowed to establish or not is very political.

K: And I feel like that same level of politicalness exists in Japan when it comes to ancestry.

C: Absolutely.

K: And, in Japan, whether or not a Japanese national considers themselves to be – to consider the people who are living in Japan – to say whether or not they came from Korea or whether or not they came from China, I know Japanese nationals that believe different things about that.

C: Right.

K: And I know some Japanese nationals who believe that they are indigenous people. Even though they are not Inui.

C: Well, the Ainu

K: Ainu.

C: Are indigenous in Hokkaido, but there’s also the Ryukyu people in the Ryukyu islands. And there is evidence that there were indigenous people on Honshu, but it’s unclear how much of that still exists, so I think that a lot of what you were saying last episode – isn’t that it was wrong and that it was always wrong, and you should have known better. It’s that… they were things that were believed when you were growing up and when you were taught.

K: Yeah.

C: Like, there’s still an open question among some scholars about whether or not the indigenous people of America are Asiatic or not. 

K: Yes.

C: There’s some evidence for, there’s some evidence against, and probably the best answer – to my understanding of the current state of it – is that there were multiple migrations, and some of the people who came over were Asiatic, and some of the people were not. 

K: Yes. So, that’s the common historical understanding. And… for me, what I hope people get and take away from this episode is that, when we’re talking about history, and when we’re talking about race, and when we’re talking about culture, that we always do it in a humble way.

C: Yeah.

K: And, so, I’m trying to demonstrate my humility in saying that I believe that I don’t know everything.

C: Mhm.

K: And that this is not my area of expertise.

C: Yeah.

K: However, if you come and talk to me about how you feel, I will be an expert in helping you process those feelings. 

(Laughter)

K: And identifying what those feelings are. You know, that’s – so, that’s not my jam. And, so, for me, it’s interesting how… different each generations’ education is. Because, just a few years back, there was a huge hullabaloo in – and I can’t understate how politically hot it was in Japan – when they were talking about removing Japan’s history with China and Asia in World War 2. 

C: Yeah.

K: And, so, I think a lot of people don’t know

C: And before World War 2.

K: Yeah. And I think a lot of people don’t know – Japan, they were colonizers.

C: Yes.

K: And, this is a historical fact, they were colonizers, and they worked really, really hard to keep the imperial system in place in China because it benefited them greatly.

C: They had what was called, in English, the puppet emperor. The puppet government. So, they occupied most of Korea, large parts of China and Mongolia and things. Until – basically, until World War 2, but between World War 1 and World War 2, they were actively waging war in Asia. 

K: Yes. 

C: And… you know, they were on the side of the Nazis during World War 2. 

K: And the Nazi party is alive and well in Japan.

C: Yes, it is. 

K: Which we’ve talked about before.

C: Yeah. So, I think that you have to look at the current thing. Because I think the current Japanese population below, let’s say 60, is… you know, has feelings that “we shouldn’t have been sided with the Nazis” but, if you get below a certain age, then they’re like, “why should we care about it?” And above a certain age is “we need to remember that, so we don’t fall back into the same trap.” 

K: It feels very much to me like when I hear Japanese nationals talking about Japan’s relationship with Korea and China. It feels very reminiscent to me of the discussion about slavery and reservations and the way that indigenous people and African Americans were treated.

C: Yeah.

K: And, when we say, “well, that happened hundreds of years ago, why do you still care?” And it’s really, really personal for every African American, for every descendant of a slave, there’s systemic – systems in place that I think people are unaware of. That every aspect of our lives are impacted by that. Whether or not we go to the hospital is impacted by that. What cuts of meat we enjoy to eat are impacted by slavery.

C: Right, right.

K: Our styles of dress – like, everything is impacted by this act, so how can you say that it’s over now? When you look at an entire system for hundreds and hundreds of years being rigged against a certain class of people based on the color of their skin, how can you say, “just get over that”?

C: Yeah.

K: So, for me… a couple weeks back, I watched… Tomi Lahren on the Trevor Noah show. And I’m not a Tomi Lahren hater, and I’m not a Tomi Lahren fan – I think she’s young more than anything. I think she’s young, and I think she’s ignorant, and I think she’s uneducated. And I think that because – when any white woman says to me, “I got the right to vote after black men” I say, “you’re uneducated.”

C: Mhm.

K: I say, “if you look at the law, yes. If you look at the law” and I think it’s so interesting to me that that same white woman won’t know that there was an African American congressman before women had the right to vote. So, one, you don’t know your complete history. Two, you don’t know what happened after the reclamation period for the civil war.

C: The reconstruction, right.

K: Yeah, the reconstruction for the civil war. And, three, you don’t understand Jim Crow. 

C: Right.

K: And you don’t understand constitution tests, and you don’t understand writing tests and reading tests, and

C: Red lining and all of that kind of

K: Yeah, and gerrymandering, and

C: Neighborhood governance.

K: Yeah, that was done to keep indigenous black and brown people from voting.

C: Right.

K: And, what I wish Trevor Noah – when we talk about Colin Kaepernick and his decision to take a knee during the anthem to protest the treatment of African Americans in the United States

C: Specifically, police violence.

K: Yes, specifically police violence, yes – that is absolutely a privileged man. He is absolutely a privileged man. But without his privilege, we wouldn’t be talking about it. If he hadn’t taken a knee – if he hadn’t risked everything, he had to do what he believed in, to start a global conversation.

C: Right.

K: So, when you come from an underprivileged group – which Tomi Lahren white, blonde, blue-eyed conservative woman is not – is not from an underprivileged group. And, to say “because I’m a woman, I am” – no, you’re not, sweet cheeks. You’re not poor.

C: See, I feel like she is selling her ignorance, and she is selling her contrariness.

K: Yes.

C: And, to me, that makes it a malicious act rather than passively not knowing. 

K: Yes.

C: I think that, like, if you…

K: She’s a shock jock. 

C: Yes, exactly.

K: She’s a shock jock. And, so, I don’t know what her actual, real life beliefs are. I don’t know what she really believes.

C: Mhm.

K: I don’t know who the authentic person is. I know that anger and aggression and being a circle jerk is making her a very nice living. 

C: Right.

K: And, so, just… I support her right to say that, just like – her right to say everything she says – just like I support Howard Stern’s right to talk about tampons. And I support – like, some of the things he talks about that are offensive. And, for me, I think that if you’re going to support the first amendment, you have to support people saying things that you don’t want to hear. You can’t just support people saying things that you want to hear. So, I do agree with Tomi that, as an American citizen, she has a right to say what she’s saying. But I also agree that Colin has the right to take a knee. And do silent protests. And I think silent, non-violent protests – you look at it, historically – has created great change for African Americans and black and brown people in the United States. In Japan, protest is different and is handled differently. People don’t march in the streets.

C: That’s not the case. It’s not as pop- it’s not as prevalent here in Nagoya.

K: Walks, not protests. 

C: Right.

K: So, the suicide walk was not a protest. It was a peaceful walk. There was no one yelling, there was no

C: That’s not what I’m referring to. I had a coworker at my previous job who would go and participate in anti-war protests and rallies and demonstrations outside of the

K: Oh, we have a mutual on twitter. Sorry, dude, you are always protesting stuff. Sorry, man. You’re right. I don’t protest in Japan.

C: Yeah.

K: I used to protest in the United States. I don’t protest in Japan.

C: Yeah, I think just the physicality of it has gotten to be a bit much for you.

K: Yeah, it is. And, you know, in a post-Corona Virus world, nobody likes to conjugate. I’m hoping to be off quarantine soon. Two months of quarantine is a lot.

C: Yeah. It is a lot. 

K: A lot. 60 days of quarantine is a lot of days, man.

C: I feel like the more dangerous kind – I feel like demagogues are dangerous in their own right. 

K: Yeah.

C: But a, a… another dangerous kind of ignorance is the kind that just excuses the status quo or just treats it as the way things have to be. 

K: Mm.

C: Like, for instance, when I was studying statistics formally – at university – and we were talking about validating models and ensuring externalities and that kind of thing

K: Yeah.

C: They use the example of the L.A. school system in the 1970s and the 1980s. 

K: Uh-huh.

C: And they say, “well, in the 1970s and 80s, they did studies, and they found that black students perform more poorly relative to white students in the district.” 

K: Yes.

C: So, here’s a subjective fact. And they said, “and that’s because they can’t be educated.” So, here’s this opinion that’s injected, “and therefore, we’re going to give more money to the white students.” And here’s this policy that’s formed on an opinion that’s based on an objective fact, but not in a real way.

K: So, I’m going to help you out because – so, everybody knows that I lend my blackness to Chad often, so that people don’t come for him because if you come for his neck, I’m going to come for yours.

C: (laughs)

K: That’s just a fact. Facts are facts. What Chad is saying – he is not expressing any of his own personal opinions. What he is saying is that schools that didn’t have enough books, that didn’t have the same science equipment, that didn’t have enough teachers, that had a lower – had a higher teacher to student ratio – that if you look at a school that the count is 31 to si- 31 to 1 – between 31 and 40 students for one teacher

C: Right.

K: That class is going to perform less than – is going to perform worse than a classroom where the ratio is 15 to 1.

C: Right.

K: And, so in the white neighborhoods, the average class size at the time was 15 students per class?

C: Yeah, I don’t know the details of it.

K: And, when you went into black neighborhoods, the ratio was about – between 38 and – between 28 and 36 per student. So, just looking at those objective facts you see that that they’re not actually objective.

C: Right. Exactly.

K: Because, when you’re putting things into the model, you’re not putting all of the facts into the model. You’re taking standardized testing, and you’re not looking at, “okay, is everything equal leading up to the test?”

C: Right, exactly.

K: So, go on with what you were saying.

C: And, so, I think… it was – the whole course was about how to design studies, experimentations, statistical explanations to try and debias information as much as possible. And one of the things that they emphasized over and over again is that it’s not possible to take out all bias.

K: Yeah.

C: You just can’t do it. So, what you try and do is make clear what biases you’re bringing in. So, I worry a lot more about people who are like, “this is just objective fact” than people who say, “I have a right to my own opinion.” Because as soon as you flag something as opinion, people who aren’t already inclined to believe you are like, “okay, you’re having an opinion.”

K: Yeah.

C: But I do know people who are like, “I’m just going off of the objective facts.” And a lot of them are assholes and pick what objective facts based on what’s convenient for them. 

K: So, for me, I do a lot of work with objective facts with my clients as a therapist.

C: Mhm.

K: And, for me, an objective fact needs to be limited in its scope and needs to be specific.

C: Yeah.

K: Like, for me – I’m going to use our son as an example. Because he has as an objective fact for himself that does not exist for me. His objective fact, in his reality, and you all can go on his Instagram and his Twitter and see a picture of his gorgeousness. Because he is gorgeous, that’s an objective fact to me. Heavily biased by his mother – and the rest of the world thinks he’s gorgeous. Everybody thinks he’s gorgeous. But he would consider himself to be a mustachioed and bearded man. 

C: Mmm.

K: So, I agree with him on the mustachioed part.

C: Yeah.

K: And he almost has a full chin strap of, like, hair. 

C: Yeah.

K: But I categorize him as a mustachioed and side burned man.

C: Okay.

K: Like, I view the hair on his face to be sideburns, a moustache, and almost a goatee. Like, he has a thought, a whisper, a hint of a goatee. But he would say, “no, no, look mother. There are hairs that don’t touch each other on my cheeks.” (laughs) “Sparsely scattered across my face.” And then I look at you, and I feel like you are the objective when it comes to setting the standard for what a bearded man is.

C: Yeah.

K: Objectively. My objective fact is that, sorry you can’t do the full ZZ Top, but having hair coming out of your face fairly evenly placed, full coverage, from your sideburns to mid-chest. Yes, you are a bearded man. 

C: Why thank you. 

K: Yeah. So, that’s my objective fact. That you are a mustachioed and bearded man.

C: But I feel like all language is an approximation of reality. 

K: Yeah because I could also say you are man with a soul patch. 

C: Yes.

K: (laughs) 

C: You could.

K: (laughs) 

C: You’d be a liar.

K: No because the hair grows out from the bottom of your lip.

C: Yes.

K: From your bottom lip, the hair grows. So, like, you do have – and it doesn’t connect. Like, there’s – I’m sorry, babe, I’m putting your private business out there in the street. Okay, so here’s the breakdown of Chad’s facial hair because I’m so into it.

C: People can just take a look at my picture and see. 

K: No, they can’t see it, though. That’s the thing is your soul patch hides the fact that you have a naked space – like, a naked half-moon? What would you call it? The corner of your mouth to your chin. Aside from your soul patch, there’s no hair. Like, underneath your soul patch is naked.

C: So, my under smile? 

K: Yeah, your under smile is bare except for your soul patch.

C: Yeah.

K: Which makes it look like you’ve got full coverage in the area that you don’t. 

C: See?

K: So, I just undid my own objective fact. Now, I’m looking at you: are truly a bearded man? Because you don’t have full coverage everywhere.

C: And that’s what I’m saying that language is always an approximation.

K: Yeah, yeah. I’m more specific when I’m in therapist mode. I’m not in therapist mode now. I take something really, really small, like “you have two eyes” and that is an objective fact. And you are looking with your eyes. That is an objective fact. I do really finite objective facts because I love – I love, love, love, especially when we’re doing – when I’m doing self-esteem work – to have objective truths and objective facts that the world – that the feedback loop from the world is telling us this thing is true based on this feedback. And I really enjoy that. 

C: See, and for me, I deal with data. Like, as a data engineer, and

K: Not “like” you are – that’s your freaking job title.

C: That’s my job title.

K: You’re a data engineer.

C: Yeah. And my background is

K: You engineer the data, baby.

C: As the Musick Notes know is mathematics. 

K: Yeah.

C: And statistics.

K: PhD of mathematics.

C: Yup. So, I – I kind of tend to approach things on an average basis. Like, what is true on average. But with the awareness that the price of being wrong about different things can be different. 

K: Yeah. 

C: And, so, I’m really careful about the things where the price of being wrong is really high.

K: Yeah.

C: And, so, if me being wrong about something is going to cost somebody else a lot, socially, emotionally, financially, or whatever, and cost me very little, then I’m like, “okay, maybe I’m wrong.” And I just keep my mouth shut, in a lot of cases.

K: Or, like me, you can think you know – so, for me, I often don’t know enough to know what I don’t know. 

C: I think everybody doesn’t know enough to know what they don’t know.

K: Yeah.

C: I think Rumsfeld

K: So, I know I don’t know enough to know what I don’t know when it comes – especially when it comes to Japan, man. I don’t know. I just – there’s a lot I just don’t know. And I know I’ve been here for… gosh, 14, 15 years, but there’s still so much I just don’t know.

C: Well, and there was so much you didn’t know about California when I met you.

K: Yeah.

C: And you had just turned 30 when I met you.

K: Yeah.

C: So, I think 15 years from now, there’s still going to be so much we don’t know about Japan. 

K: And, to me, that’s something that I find to be really exciting.

C: Oh, I find that to be exciting too.

K: Yeah, so I hope that my admission of ignorance cools anybody out who wasn’t already cooled out. And knows that I’m not coming from a place of trying to harm someone – and here I am saying very openly that… I don’t know. I do not know wh- how the people got to North America. And I still struggle with central – the concept of Central America.

C: Mhm.

K: I grew up – Central America wasn’t something – a term that was used a lot in school in the 70s. We were taught very much, North and South America.

C: Right.

K: And we were taught very much – geographically, our education stopped at Mexico. 

C: Yeah.

K: And, so, for a long time I didn’t know – I thought Mexico was the entire land bridge between North and South America. I thought that whole land bridge was Mexico.

C: Oh, see, and I knew that part of it was Panama because of the canal.

K: See, and I thought the Pan- I had no idea where Panama or the canal was, or what the big deal of it was. I thought it was somewhere on the East Coast near Cuba.

C: And I know specific pieces of information just because they were part of my personal history. Like, when you said earlier that the Philippines was a U.S. territory, the Philippines hasn’t been a U.S. territory for a while, but the U.S. military was there until like… 1980-something. 

K: Yeah.

C: And I remember that because my

K: Because of Imelda Marcos.

C: Well, because my

K: And all her shoes. They were horrible. The Marcos were horrible people, and we should not have rescued them.

C: I know very little about that. What I do know is that, when I was living

K: Because you were like seven?

C: When I was living with my grandmother. 

K: (laughs)

C: My

K: How old were you during the whole Imelda Marcos thing?

C: I think I was like… somewhere between nine and twelve.

K: Okay.

C: Maybe as young as seven. But I remember, at some point, 

K: Because I was really, really upset by it. I was really, really upset by the United States intervention and the way that the United States handled that.

C: Right.

K: And… that’s when I started looking into the relationship with the U.S. – and I think it was Lyndon B Johnson who said that, who called um… everyone in the Philippines “our little brown brothers.”

C: That probably – that does sound like him.

K: And I was like, “what!? Are you kidding me?” Like, how is that ever okay?

C: Yeah.

K: How is that ever okay? And, what – when are we going to pay the debt to this country? Like, as the United States, when is the United States going to get itself together and start repaying some of its debts? And I feel the same way about Japan. When is Japan going to get it together and start paying some of the damage – and France. Oh, don’t even get me started on France.

C: (laughs)

K: The French act like they were this super wonderful country. They wreaked havoc. They were colonizers. They wreaked havoc in Africa. They wreaked havoc in Asia.

C: Yes.

K: And they colonized – they wreaked havoc in the United States as well. Amongst my indigenous brothers and sisters. So, like – the French – you guys aren’t amazing. No. You’re colonizers just like everybody else. 

C: (laughs)

K: Oh. I got so fired up right there. Don’t even. I – just – I don’t like the way the French is always condescending to the Americans. 

C: Okay, so, but the people haven’t heard the end of my story.

K: Okay. And they were doing – what was it (laughs) when we were in France. I know I tell this story all the time, but I can’t remember what it was. I keep wanting to say it was a hatchet. Was it a hammer? (laughs) People were banging in and robbing.

C: It was an axe.

K: Yes, with an axe. Okay? There were axe crimes.

C: And an axe and a hatchet and different.

K: And it was a French national. French national, born and raised in France, who was doing axe crimes.

C: Yes.

K: So, no. No, France. Just… no. You’re as bad as everyone else, France.

C: But you could tell he was coming down the street because of the smell.

K: (laughs)

C: Be like, “is that axe body spray?” 

K: (laughs) I was laughing because I knew the joke. 

C: Yeah.

K: Yeah, okay. But your story – first, get us back to what were we talking about before I got all fired up about the French.

C: I was talking about the U.S. relationship with the Philippines. 

K: Okay. 

C: My uncle works for the state department, and has for my entire life that I remember, I think it was like 35 years.

K: Your uncle that was here in Japan?

C: Correct. He was here in Japan with the state department.

K: And we never saw them. Not once.

C: No.

K: (laughs) Sorry.

C: But my aunt – my dad’s sister – my aunt and her kids showed up at my grandmother’s when I was living there because they had fled the Philippines because of the civil unrest in the middle of the night.

K: Ah. Okay.

C: And that was a really striking event for me. They were talking about how

K: And that was strikingly relevant.

C: Right?

K: Wow. My whole digression. I feel like we’ve just lost all of our French listeners. I feel like they’re going to be like, “we hate you, Kisstopher.” 

C: Yeah?

K: I’m just saying – and I just, ugh. No. I stand by it. I’m not cleaning it up. No. I stand by it. 

C: So, we tried to learn French together.

K: Yes.

C: And our – we had two – two main tutors. 

K: Embouteillage. Aux Etats Unis.

C: Yeah.

K: (laughs) I just said, “Traffic jam in the United States” and I’m so proud of myself.

C: Yeah. We had two main French teachers, and one was Senegalese and one was Lebanese. 

K: Yes. Hello. Because why? The French are colonizers.

C: Yes. But when you said, “everybody’s colonizers” it’s not true that everybody’s colonizers. But it is true that a lot of countries – particularly in Europe and America – have colonized.

K: Yeah. North America.

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t feel like – I feel like South America and Central America were colonized by Portugal and Spain – and Portugal, for being such a small country, you wreaked havoc on the world. Like, some of the worst treatment of slaves were down to – and indigenous – they were massacred.

C: And countries can turn themselves around. You know, 

K: Yeah because Portugal has turned themselves around, I think. 

C: Yeah. 

K: And post- in a post-Dali Spain, they turned themselves around.

C: Post-Franco I think you’re thinking. 

K: No, I like to do it Post-Salvador Dali. Post-Dali world. 

C: Okay.

K: Because I think they turned themselves around after his death. 

C: They were like

K: Completely unrelated to his death.

C: They were like, “goodbye, Dali.” 

K: Yes. 

C: Yeah because Portugal is doing a lot of great stuff.

K: Did you know Dali was a cross-dresser and pansexual? Salvador Dali.

C: I did not know he was pansexual, but you and I saw the same exhibit of

K: (laughs) Of his dresses. 

C: Yeah.

K: (laughs) Yeah, you did go with me.

C: Yeah, I did. That came here to Nagoya, and we went and saw that. Of all the different things he designed. All of his costumes, and pictures of him wearing them.

K: Yes.

C: Both traditionally male and traditionally female dress. Of the perfume bottles.

K: I think it’s so just – yeah, which I think is so interesting considering the time in history when he was – when he existed was just really bleak, dark time in Spain’s history.

C: Yes.

K: So, I’m surprised that he got away with it. Or – I don’t know how to explain it. I’m surprised that he wasn’t persecuted for it. There you go.

C: Mm. Yeah. 

K: That’s what I’m trying – struggling to say. I’m surprised that he wasn’t persecuted.

C: Yeah.

K: And murdered because of it. So…. We’re all over the place, today. It was completely… rambly. So, I think it started off with me wanting to apologize for saying inciteful things and then digressing into… several rants that were very inciting. (laughs) And filled with content that would incite.

C: Yeah, maybe. I think our regular listeners aren’t going to be incited by them, but I hope they are incited to seek knowledge.

K: Yeah, me too. Because I did – I do contend that I’m completely ignorant. That I am an ignorant ass.

C: Everybody is. And the reason I know this is because I know a lot of mathematicians, and none of the mathematicians that I know, know everything. So, all of them have big areas of ignorance. 

K: Yeah.

C: And if you’re not a mathematician, I guarantee you have big levels of ignorance about math, so everybody’s ignorant. 

K: Yeah. I know nothing about geography. 

C: I know very little, and I was taught very little.

K: You know way more than I do. 

C: Yeah, but

K: I am geography – geographically challenged when it comes to understand where things are located in the world. I don’t know where anything is.

C: I think I do know more

K: Without looking at, like, a map.

C: I think I do know more about that now. But, when you say Central America, I’m like, “okay, that’s Panama.” I always get Panama because of the canal.

K: Yeah. And Mexico, right?

C: Mexico is part of North America. 

K: But part of Mexico goes into the land bridge. 

C: But Mexico is considered part of North America.

K: Okay. Oh, yeah, because of the North American – NAFTA.

C: Yeah, I think it’s like Panama and Nicaragua, and El Salvador? But that might be completely wrong. 

K: Ecuador?

C: Ecuador, maybe. I thought Ecuador was an island. I know Belize is. 

K: I don’t think Ecuador is an island.

C: You don’t think so? See, my South American geography is terrible.

K: So, is Venezuela part of South America?

C: Venezuela is part of South America, yes. 

K: Okay. Poor Venezuela. They have some amazing times in their history, and then some really tragic times in their history.

C: Yeah. I like magical realism literature, so… a lot of that is from the South American… uhm…

K: And you write magical realism. 

C: Yeah. But I don’t write South American magical realism.

K: No, you don’t. What kind of magical realism – I think you write Chad magical realism. 

C: I do write Chad magical realism.

K: What’s going on with your writing? Are you writing lately?

C: I haven’t been writing lately.

K: Just awkward segue, wife pressuring her husband to write. “Where’s my book?”

C: Yeah, I haven’t been writing very much lately.

K: (laughs) All our Musick Notes know you owe me three books; you’ve written one of them.

C: Yeah.

K: So, you’ve written one of three that you owe me.

C: So, things are very stressful

K: Am I caught up into my – in my reading of your

C: Yup. You’re caught up. 

K: Okay. (laughs) Total pressuring you. Am I caught up? Is there any change you might write a scene tomorrow?

C: So, just brief state of the state kind of thing before we finish: things have been very busy at work because the Corona Virus pandemic has meant that everybody has to shift the way that they do business.

K: Mmm.

C: And when you shift the way you do business, you have to shift what kind of data you need, and people generate different data and different things, so I have been extremely busy. 

K: Mm. And, so, I think… I think what people didn’t know at the beginning of the pandemic is that it’s not, “oh people are recovering, the pandemic’s over, and impact of the pandemic is over” – that’s not the case, and not going to be the case. You know. As we look around the world, the world is still recovering.

C: Right.

K: And trying to understand

C: And wondering if it will continue to recover.

K: Yeah. And, like… have we flattened the curve? Are we on the other side of thigs? What’s, you know

C: Will there be second or third or fourth go-rounds?

K: Yeah.

C: All of that is still unknown.

K: Yeah.

C: Unless you’re listening years and years in the future, in which case you’ll know the outcome.

K: Yeah. And, so… hopefully – I’m hoping that, after golden week, I will be off quarantine.

C: Golden week begins April 30th in Japan and extends for five days.

K: Yeah, and I think – I’m scheduled – I’ve scheduled a week off. The first week of May. Actually, it’s technically the second week of May that I’m taking off because there’s – the first and second of May are – I don’t remember.

C: Three, four, and five are always holidays. 

K: Yeah. So, the first and second in May are Friday and Saturday – duh-huh – and, um… I think? Oh, man.

C: It’s hard.

K: I’m so unsure of everything right now.

C: Calendars are hard. Geography is hard.

K: I’m feeling so out of it. I’m hungry. I’m hungry, that’s what’s wrong.

C: Okay. On that note, we’re going to head on over to our take two. And if you’re a patron, you can follow us.

K: (laughs) And see what mayhem and mischief we get into between now and then. But in between, I am going to look at a calendar. I am. 

C: Okay.

K: I rarely look at stuff in between, so – oh, exciting, Kisstopher will know what day of the week she’s working and what day she’s not. (laughs)

C: Yay.

K: We’ll know what day her – her vacation starts. So, anyways, thanks for hanging in, and if we said anything that hurts or upsets you, go ahead and reach out to us and let us know. Do it respectfully, um… yeah, and… don’t call names. Like, I know I’m ignorant. You don’t need to text me and say, “hey, you’re ignorant.” Just… be polite about it, or you’ll get blocked. (laughs) 

C: Yup. 

K: Because I’m being honest in saying that I came from a place of ignorance, right? And I’m not trying to hurt anybody.

C: Yes. Well, and I block. I just have – we don’t build that following – I just block. You want to argue with us? I just

K: Yeah, we don’t. We don’t feed the trolls. So, we hope everybody’s having a wonderful April and that their April was amazing. And, yeah. Talk to you over in the talk two. Bye.

C: Bye.