Talk about security and insecurity, both valid and not. How it plays out for different people, different issues, and different times.

Transcript

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about feeling secure versus feeling insecure.

C: Like turning on two-factor identification for everything? Because I’ve had to do that for work, so that’s on my mind.

K: Sort of. Kind of. Because, in my life, there are a lot of sources that can lead to security or insecurity. Like, you know, with my job, with my PHD, with parenting, with wifeing, with adulting. And… just every aspect of me, there’s potential for security or insecurity, and I don’t know why I forgot to mention money, but money’s also an aspect of it.

C: Because we hates it, we does. 

(laughter)

K: So, what do you think when I say that? And that – and that was so therapy mode for me because I’ll say something and then I’ll ask a – I ask my clients “so, what do you think when I say that?” because I really want to know what their thoughts are to my opinions. 

C: I feel like you give a lot of people a lot of security. 

K: Thank you, that’s really sweet.

C: Like emotionally security.

K: Thank you, that’s really sweet. 

C: I think there’s a big difference between being insecure and feeling insecure. And they don’t always line up. So, I think some people feel really secure even though their life is really insecure, and they logically should not feel secure.

K: Yeah.

C: And then some people don’t feel secure no matter what. No matter how stable and good their life is, no matter how good everything in their life is they don’t feel secure. 

K: So, for me, I find that… when I‘m feeling insecure, it’s about worthiness. 

C: Mhm.

K: Rather than actual security. Because I have core trauma from just lifetime of abuse and PTSD, and so, sometimes that – and I’m sure people can relate to this – that leads to me feeling just completely unworthy of anything good. And that’s kind of like – not kind of like – it’s completely the legacy of my mother was so abusive to me, and that’s supposed to be the person who loves you unconditionally and loves you more than everybody else. Like we have a running joke in our family, which probably isn’t nice, but I’m going to say it anyway because I can’t stop myself. But I always tell Rasta how much I love him, but I always tell him “see, their mother doesn’t love them as much as your mother loves you.” And it’s a joke, but sometimes it’s real talk. (laughs) And not – because sometimes he’ll be like – friends back home in the U.S. they’ll have issues or something, and I’ll be like “that’s because their mother doesn’t love them as much as your mother loves you.” 

C: Mhm.

K: And, so, yeah. But it’s just something funny we say because I love him to the Nth.

C: I think if you never have insecurity about whether you’re worthy of the things you’ve got, then you’ve either had a really good therapist

K: (laughs) And even then.

C: Right? 

K: Because I have a really good therapist, but even then.

C: Or you spend your time reading books like “how to manage your second billion.” You might only have a thousand dollars in the bank, but in your mind, you’re on your way to your second billion. 

K: So, you think only delusional feel people never feel unworthy.

C: I don’t think it’s delusional so much as people who don’t ever have to face the world. Like… there’s a mathematical theorem called “Arrow’s impossibility theorem” which says that if you have a system in which people vote on things, and people are rational, then there’s always going to be somebody who always gets what they want. 

K: Mhm.

C: The conditions for that people generally agree aren’t fulfilled because people aren’t rational in the way that’s meant for rational choice theory, which is the branch of mathematics and economics that it’s from. But there are people who basically always get what they want whether or not they deserve it. And I think if you grow up always getting what you want, you don’t really develop insecurity about whether or not you deserve it.

K: Mmm. Rasta grew up getting pretty much everything he wanted. And he still has insecurity sometimes.

C: But I should say we had Rasta, like, “work” for it. And I’m putting that in quotes because, depending on how your family was when you grew up – my family was really, really poor when I grew up for a variety of reasons despite my father having a good education – but… I think there’s the insecurity of realizing everything

K: Even when – even when we were dirt poor. Like, so, I don’t want everyone thinking Rasta grew up with a silver spoon in his mouth because there were times that he got anything he wanted from the dollar store, and up to three items, and then anything that he didn’t get that time around we could get next time around. And, so, the – okay, maybe he didn’t get every single thing he wanted. But he always tells me he always got everything he wanted. And so that was his lived experience of getting everything he wanted. 

C: Yeah.

K: And sometimes he feels unworthy because he’s aware that he’s not doing what’s necessary to be worthy of the level of lifestyle he’s currently living. I’m just spilling all of Ras – all of Rasta’s business. (laughs)

C: Well, I think everybody is worthy of like food, shelter, clothing, that kind of thing. You don’t have to do anything to be worthy of that except exist. 

K: Yes.

C: But I don’t – I’m not a big fan of the concept of worthiness in general. I think things are inherently unfair and saying somebody is worthy of having time off and somebody is not worthy of having time off is always a judgment. And it’s always a judgment formed in ideology. I don’t think there’s a way that you can fairly decide who’s worthy of what. 

K: So, for me, insecure and secure: my insecurity is based on feeling worthy, my pride system, I very – the person I say I’m proud of them the most to is Rasta because I had a hand in what he’s done. When I’m talking to my clients, I usually use the language of “I hope you are feeling proud of yourself” because they did the work, not me. Something I find interesting is that when I work with Japanese nationals, it was really challenging in the beginning because the word “proud” is seen as a negative thing – to be prideful is to be seen as narcissistic. That humility is valued more than pride. 

C: Right.

K: And so, teaching them that hey, it’s okay to step back and say “that was enough. What I did right there was enough and all I could do.” And when we do enough and all we can do – reshaping their understanding of the word pride. And reshaping their understanding of affection and reshaping their understanding of secure and insecure and worthwhile because, for me culturally, I will always think that you should tell your children “I love you.” Culturally in Japan, “I love you” is not really something that parents typically say to their children. At least – so, this could be confirmation bias because the people that I see, their parents never said “I love you” to them ever, once, their entire

C: Right. They’re coming to see you because they need a therapist. 

K: Yeah, so, if you’re Japanese, and you say “I love you” to your kid, hit us up. Let us know we’re wrong on this. But, in my experience, even people who I don’t see as a therapist, even people I know as friends don’t say “I love you” to their kids. And their kids don’t say “I love you” back. They think it’s weird as heck that before I hang up the phone, I say “I love you.” Before we separate, I say “I love you.” 

C: But it happens so often that in my texting app that we use to communicate with Rasta when he’s not around, all I have to do is hit “L”: and it suggests “Love you too.” 

(laughter)

K: Yeah, and for us, any time we pass each other, we touch, we kiss

C: Yeah.

K: I can’t count how many times we say, “I love you” In a day. Because I’ll just look over and be like “I love you” and then go back to what I’m doing and have it just be random love. And that’s one of the things that helps me feel secure in our marriage.

C: Mhm. 

K: But I don’t always feel worthy of our marriage. And, so, that’s always kind of a quandary for me. Like, the moments that I feel insecure in our marriage are the moments that I don’t feel worthy of our marriage. And I don’t feel worthy of our marriage because sometimes I just feel like a whole bag of nuts.

C: I feel like

K: Specifically, hazelnuts. 

C: Mmm. It’s tough because I feel like… we’re wired to use heuristics. 

K: Yeah.

C: And, so, we have these kinds of things that we think. So, whenever I see my bank account go down, I get the panic of “I’m going to be homeless.” It doesn’t matter where the bank account is at.

K: Yeah.

C: It doesn’t matter if it’s gone down to 5 dollars or 5 million dollars. It’s “my bank account went down. I’m going to be homeless next month.”

K: Mmm.

C: And I haven’t been homeless in 25 years, so…

K: So, you have financial insecurity.

C: I have a lot of financial insecurity. Always. 

K: Even though we’re both working, and I feel like we’re financially good.

C: Yeah, even though we’re both working, and even though I will spend money on things that I don’t absolutely need. 

K: See, that’s an area I feel like way secure in. I feel financially way secure. And I have a whole system that I do to determine whether or not I can feel financially secure. And that’s whether or not I’m meeting my financial goals by the specific date that I’ve set them. 

C: Mm.

K: And, so, for me, it’s like… okay, I want to have X amount saved in the bank by this date. And if I reach it by that date, then I feel financially secure. If I don’t, then I go through all the money that I’ve spent and see did I make an active choice to not make that amount. And if I made an active choice to not make that amount, then I still feel financially good and financially secure.

C: Because you could have made that.

K: Yeah. It’s really rare that I feel financially insecure.

C: Yeah. For me, I think the thing I feel insecure about most often is whether or not I’m treating other people well. And I think that’s probably because of The Autism. 

K: Mhm. 

C: You’ve got to capitalize both of those again. I don’t always know whether people… appreciate what I’m doing when they see what I’m doing. And it’s not about me receiving gratitude. It’s about me not wanting to go around the world being an asshole and hurting people. And… taking pride in what I do is a particularly tricky thing because growing up, I was always told, you know, like… “hubris, pride comes before the fall.” And then on the religious side of things, then if you’re proud, then you’re stiff-necked and God is going to chop off your head. 

K: Okay. So, that’s… like, wow. 

C: Right?

K: Don’t get your head chopped off.

C: Right? Like if you’re

K: That’s no beuno.

C: Like if you’re proud, somebody’s going to come chop your head off with a sword. It’s like the Highlander. There could be only one. 

K: There could be no pride. 

C: There could be only one person who’s proud. 

(laughter)

K: So, I want to say something that the language I use about myself, I do use nuts, crazy, bananas. I’m talking about myself. I’m sorry if those words are triggering for you, but that’s the way I talk about my mental health. I never talk about someone else’s mental health in those terms, but we talk a lot on this show about owning our own definitions and about me not being a monolith. I’m not a monolith for mental health or people who are having mental health issues. And, as a therapist, I wouldn’t say that, but right now I’m just talking about myself, and sometimes – the language that I grew up learning – sometimes, I feel crazy. And when I say crazy, I mean delusional. 

C: Mm.

K: And so, for me, it’s completely delusional that – I feel like I’m in a complete state of delusion when I feel unworthy of my marriage because early, early on in our relationship, something I absolutely loved about our relationship, is that we were best friends first. 

C: Yes.

K: And so, we would really – like, we would stay up until all hours of the night just hanging out and talking. 

C: Yeah. It wasn’t the “well, you’re my partner, so I’m going to say you’re my best friend.” 

K: No, like, we weren’t having sex.

C: Right, we weren’t dating.

K: I was trying to hook you up with other people. 

C: Yes. 

K: Like, on the regular.

C: Actively. Yes.

K: Yeah because I thought you were a good guy. 

C: Thank you.

K: Yeah. So, we would – and we told each other all of our secrets as best friends do. And we really talked about, like, what was working and what was not working in our current relationships because we were each in other relationships. You were married to someone else, and I was dating the town.

C: Yeah. 

K: And I had an ex that I was kind of going back and forth with, and I was like “these things are driving me nuts. This is what makes me not want to be with this person.” So, we got the unvarnished truth from each other about what we want and don’t want in a relationship.

C: Yeah because there were no stakes. I wasn’t trying to impress you. You weren’t trying to impress me.

K: Yeah. And I never thought that you would have to live up to the standards. 

C: (laughs)

K: So, there was no – no protecting your feelings. 

C: Yeah.

K: And no, like, “you’re not working in this way.”: So, I have a really good understanding of what your dealbreakers are.

C: Yeah.

K: And what makes you feel valued and what doesn’t make you feel valued. And I strive every day to make you feel valued. And when I feel guilt, which anyone who knows me knows I think guilt is the most toxic emotion a human being can feel, and when we research it, the research backs it up because it doesn’t serve any purpose. And I talk with – anyone who talks with me knows I believe there’s a strong difference between criticism and constructive criticism. Criticism is “you’re fat.” Constructive criticism is “hey, I’m concerned about your health, would you like to do these healthy activities with me?” Neither one of those are going to land well, but at least with the constructive criticism, it’s like “these are the steps you can take.” 

C: Mhm.

K: So, when I hear my internal bully just telling me “you’re a shit wife,” well that’s not constructive in any way. And I shouldn’t be the one who gets to decide that.

C: And I think that

K: Because I’m not married to me.

C: The example you use for constructive criticism is interesting because in the one, it’s just saying what you think the problem is. And the second one – like, being fat – and the second one is saying what you think the effect of it is, which is poor health.

K: Yes. 

C: Because although I’m fat, I have excellent blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugars, like all of that. So

K: You have a crazy good resting heart rate.

C: Yeah. So, for me, if you say “I’m concerned about your health because you’re fat” I can just say “don’t be. I’m actually much healthier now that I’m fat than I was when I was skinny.”

K: Yeah.

C: So, I think that there’s kind of a sense of judgment that comes with criticism of “I know what’s going on, I know how to fix it.” The constructive criticism can start a conversation. That being said, always associating being fat with ill health is kind of exhausting. Like, there are certain things

K: It’s a personal pet peeve of yours.

C: Yeah.

K: But I feel like people are going to be sick of hearing us talk about being fat. 

C: Mhm.

K: (laughs) See, and I feel like that’s an example of me being a bad wife. I know you like to go on tangents. But I’m like “this tangent is boring me, so let’s talk about something different.” I feel like that kind of thing is harsh. I feel like I’m really a harsh person to live with. I feel very, very mean. 

C: You’re not mean. You’re very blunt and direct. 

K: I am very blunt.

C: As an autistic person, I appreciate that.

K: It’s so funny. The whole time I’ve been a therapist, I tell my clients this phrase, and everybody has the same reaction to it. They brace themselves for something really horrible. I say, “can I tell you something gently but directly?” It’s never gentle, but it’s always direct. They’re like “that was not gentle at all.” I say, “but I said the word gentle.”

(laughter)

C: I asked if I could and obviously the answer is no.

K: (laughs) I’ve had people be like “no, I can’t handle any truths today.” And I’m like “crack on, know who you are, that’s awesome, catch your moment on that.” And then I don’t. But I think my thoughts. And, so… something else I struggle with is I love to travel. I fricking love it. It’s my favoritest thing to do in the whole wide world. And if you’re a Musick Note, you already know this about me. WE did a whole episode on it. Go check out our Patreon for two bucks you can listen to all the back episodes. But, when we travel sometimes, I feel completely unworthy of your willingness to travel. Because here’s the thing: I think you’re the only person in the world besides Rasta who would ever enjoy traveling with me. I am so incredibly bossy. Like… for example, we recently went to Hakone. Both times we’ve gone to Hakone, it’s gone down this way: “when are we buying the tickets? Did you make the reservations? Did you make the dinner” and it’s a bunch of – it’s a to-do list for you. And then when we get there “this is how we set up the room. Unpack this. Move that. Do this, do that.” And then “let’s sit down and plan out what we’re going to do every day, and then that’s the schedule, and we stick to it.”

C: And that gives me so much security. Because I don’t have the insecurity of “Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing the things that are going to make Kisstopher feel good and enjoy the trip? Enjoy the vacation.” So that’s what I was saying most of my insecurity, other than financial, revolves around whether or not I’m treating the people around me well. Because, growing up, like, not to blame my parents for everything, but to blame my parents for everything. 

K: Because they were horrible. Horrible, terrible parents.

C: Growing up, I was always made to feel like I was in the wrong. Everybody else’s emotions were my fault if they were negative.

K: Yes, I’m doing it again everyone. I’m moving the mic all around. I’m shifty. I can’t help it. I don’t know how it sounds on the podcast, but I just can not keep the mic still.

C: (laughs) Yeah.

K: Okay, so you were saying how horrible your parents are.

C: Yeah. And that makes me

K: Or were. One’s dead. The other one’s not dead. Yeah, okay.

C: That makes me feel insecure because I always want to make sure the people around me – that I’m not making them feel uncomfortable. I accept that people around me will be uncomfortable for their own reasons. I just don’t want to be that reason.

K: Unless you’re on a train and somebody’s sitting in a disabled seat.

C: I would like them to feel uncomfortable because they deserve to feel uncomfortable. 

K: Yes. 

C: So, if I a

K: On our last trip to Hakone, you totally made someone feel extremely uncomfortable. I found it confusing. There were two people sitting next to you, but you only wanted to make one of the people sitting next to you uncomfortable. And it was just interesting for me to watch because I don’t feel anything for the person. And the one person you wanted to make uncomfortable was so uncomfortable. And then, you moved, and you were like “everyone’s acting right in this row, so I won’t make anyone uncomfortable.” Because when we get on the train when we travel, I take the suitcase. 

C: Right.

K: Because I don’t have mobility issues – I do, but they’re not as severe as yours. 

C: Yeah.

K: So, I take the suitcase, and I put it – there’s like a space, to me, that’s – not to me – there’s a space on the train that’s the size of our suitcase at the end of the row, and I stand there. And then you sit as close to me as you can and throughout the train ride, you move closer to me. 

C: Yes. It’s like Frogger.

K: (laughs) Yeah, completely like Frogger. And I was like “yay, I knew you’d get here.” And then I gave you a kiss. I was like “I knew you could do it.” And it was one stop before we got off. So, it’s like a 14-minute train ride, the first train ride. And then the next train ride, if we’re going to Hakone specifically, is two hours. 

C: Yeah. So, I have – a strong sense of social justice, which doesn’t necessarily agree with everyone else’s, and the mass to back it up. So, I’m like a social justice barbarian because I just use myself. I don’t use a sword or anything like a social justice warrior might. They might have like a sword and shield; I’ve just got myself and my wildness.

K: (laughs) Yes.

C: So, the guy that I wanted to make uncomfortable, we were sitting on the train, right, he was sitting in one of three seats that’s supposed to be reserved for people who really need a seat. And maybe he really did, but he did not need to take off his shoes, spread himself out to take up two seats, go to sleep reeking of alcohol, and growl at anybody who came near him.

K: Okay, true that. Mind you at 11 am in the morning. 

C: 10:30 in the morning. 

K: 10:30 in the morning, yeah.

C: So, what I did to make him uncomfortable was sit in the seat that he had decided was his extra seat.

K: No, you have – you know you have a thing you do.

C: Yes. I take up my allotted space aggressively. 

K: Yes. 

(laughter)

K: Which is an art form.

C: Yes.

K: It’s an art form. Because I’ve only ever seen you be able to do that. I guess I can do it sometimes, but not really. I think that you’re really good at doing that. So, when you’re making that person feel uncomfortable, are you feeling insecure?

C: I am not feeling insecure. I’m feeling like

K: Are you feeling like a bully? 

C: I don’t feel like a bully. I feel like a lot of people use kindness as a weapon. Other people’s kindness, not their own. Using your own kindness as a weapon is a particular Mormon art form that I’ve seen mastered, but that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m talking about people who rely on other people’s kindness and discomfort to make themselves uncomfortable – make themselves comfortable at the expense of everyone else on purpose. Like their goal is to be comfortable even if it discomfits other people. I don’t feel like a bully when I make them rein that in.

K: Okay. That makes complete sense to me.

C: Because there are social rules. I’m just making them follow the rules. 

K: There are social rules. 

C: Yeah.

K: Sorry if I’m distracting you, but there’s a bug on the wall behind you, and it keeps flying around and then landing. Flying around and then landing. 

C: I hope I don’t make it uncomfortable. 

K: (laughs) So, it’s bugging me. Because it flies in one circular loop and then lands, so, yeah. We’ll have to catch it with a cup. So, I don’t – can’t deal with it right now, not going to interrupt, so I’m going to stop looking over there. But then I can’t look at you, and that’s like – that makes me uncomfortable. So, for me, I have sometimes… bouts of depression triggered by exhaustion. 

C: Mhm.

K: And in December, I was feeling depressed because I was exhausted because my self-care had gone completely out the window, and I was working seven days a week. I had not taken a day off in three months.

C: Yeah.

K: And I was like “whoa, I’ve got to shape things up,” and so if you follow us on twitter, you’d know that for the first time ever in December, when we went to Hakone, I set an automatic responder on my email. So, even if I check my email, it’s already been responded to, so I don’ have to respond. And it would look really weird if I did and make the person receiving the response extremely uncomfortable. So, the purpose of setting the responder was to stop my behavior.

C: Right.

K: Because I never want someone to feel hurt because I emailed them.

C: Yeah. So, I want to clarify that you’re lying right here. You had set an automatic responder before because when I went to set it, because you don’t actually set it you ask me to

K: Okay.

C: It said that back in 2014, you had set one for two days. 

(laughter)

K: And I think that’s because I was at a residency.

C: Yes.

K: Okay. Yeah. So, okay. It was my second time setting an autoresponder.

(laughter)

K: So, yeah, you can see it’s not something that I do regularly. And I was really, really honored and pleased and happy that all of – none of my clients emailed me.

C: Mhm.

K: So, I felt really seen, but I was feeling completely invisible because my job is to not be visible in the room.

C: Yeah, the nature of your job is not to make it about you.

K: Yeah. And… I think I do a pretty good job of that, but I don’t think I’m invisible in the room. I think I’m still visible. And I don’t do tabula rasa, I do “this is me; this is who I am, and these are the biases I bring to – into the situation.”

C: Well correct me if I’m wrong, if I’m using the wrong language, but I think you do trauma-informed therapy. And part of that is making people feel safe by showing them how you can relate and how their experience is not, uh, unique. It’s not unknown, but it is theirs. 

K: Yes.

C: So all of that requires that you bring a lot of yourself to the table, and I see, on twitter especially, and other places, people saying “we really need more therapists who didn’t go, you know, great high school grades, go to college at 18, zip through that, get their licensure right after that, have no life experience before they start being a therapist telling people who have experienced deep trauma how to fix things.”

K: Yeah. I agree with that, but I’m biased, and I own that bias. I also share my security and insecurity. For the most part, I spend most of my life feeling really confident and feeling really competent and really secure, but when the PTSD kicks up, sometimes it’s really hard to feel worthy, and then that leads to me feeling insecure. And that almost always centers around you because you really are an amazing, beautiful, wonderful human being and an amazing, beautiful, wonderful husband who loves me very well. And loves me, like, clearly loves me very much.

C: The pressure.

K: (laughs) I know because now this is a public statement. You have to live up to that, man, that’s what you need to be. You always have to be the best husband ever. And I feel bad because any moment that you are not being the best husband ever, I own this I need to stop doing this, I will drag you on twitter. 

C: Yeah. Yeah. 

K: I will. And sometimes it’s not even having to do about you. 

C: Well and

K: Sometimes I can be upset at our son, and I will just lump you in. Because if our son hurts our feelings, I get so upset with you. 

C: And I always know who I’m competing against.

K: I said hurts our feelings like the royal we. (laughs)

C: I always know who I’m competing against because

K: Okay, who are you competing against?

C: I’m competing against the husband without autism. 

K: What are you talking about? 

C: Like, you know, some people, you’ll say, “my autistic husband” and they’ll say, “you mean your husband with autism?” And I’m like “dammit, there’s that husband without autism competing again.”

K: Yeah, no, I don’t – because I don’t ever say that shit. I only have one husband. I do like to tell you you’re my favorite husband. 

C: Yes.

K: Because you’re like “out of how many?” 

(laughter)

K: and I just love that response. It tickles me pink because I can always say “just one.”

C: Yes, I will reliably respond that way. 

K: Yes. “How many do you have?” I have just the one. But you are the best of one.

C: Thank you.

K: You are the eminent. 

C: Thank you because sometimes you can get a vote of no confidence, which is like “you are – you are not even the best of one.”

(laughter)

K: So, I find something else that – that triggers me, that triggers insecurity, is the United States. News in the United States. When there’s really embarrassing stuff going down or really racist stuff or really ableist stuff, so all the time

C: Yeah.

K: News about the U.S. is very upset. And I find it really hard to cope with. And my I – because I so strongly identify as an American, and I feel like… make America great again, that slogan is very triggering for me because the 1905s was not a great time for people of color. 

C: Right.

K: And even in 2019, it’s not a great time for people of color. It’s gotten better, but it’s still not safe. It really just triggers me. And… then, also, when we go to – in Japan, for the most part, I’m locked away from racism – I don’t experience it except for when we go to hotels. And if we stay in a hotel, they’ll ask us for our passport, which is actually against the law because we’re residents of Japan. 

C: So, it’s not against the law for them to ask, but they’re not legally entitled to have it.

K: Okay. So, tell me about that, because I thought it was against the law.

C: No.

K: I thought it was discrimination.

C: So, hotels are legally required to get a cop of the passport of anybody who doesn’t have a residence in Japan. 

K: Okay.

C: But they are not legally entitled to even see the passport of people who are residents of Japan. Whether that’s – you’re a resident who’s not Japanese or you’re Japanese. 

K: Okay.

C: But the only indication the hotels have that we are not Japanese when we make the reservation is how we look and our name. 

K: Yeah. Because we don’t look – well, I look like I have a Japanese grandparent. 

C: Well and there’s

K: I have big, round, light colored eyes.

C: And there’s no thing on the reservation box. Like “are you a citizen or are you a resident?”

K: Ah, okay.

C: There’s no place that you put it in.

K: And there’s lots of Blackanese. 

C: Yeah. And, in fact, in many hotel

K: I should explain. So, in my culture, and this is Kisstopher’s culture, a lot of my… sisters and brothers of color, we like to add black to any like “Blareans” Black Koreans, “Blackanese” Black Japanese, Black Chinese. Blasian, Black Asian. We like to ad that Black in there.

C: Yes.

K: I love it. (laughs)

C: Interesting. 

K: And you stay fully in your lane. You go with that. That was awesome, babe. So, anybody that it offends, if you are Blackanese, if you are Black and Japanese, I won’t call you Blackanese. But know that there are people in the world who identify as Blackanese.

C: Well, it’s a lot easier to understand what that means than “Jack.” Because that would be the other way to put them together. 

K: No. It would not.

C: (laughs)

K: Oh my god. So, we looked up the nickname “Jack” because I was like “what’s up with Jack?” Because Jack is like, for some reason there’s a bunch of t.v. shows on the thing that I watch that had the name “Jack” in it. I’m like… “Jack. What is Jack a nickname for?” And Chad was like “Jackson” and I said “okay, that make sense.” 

C: I did not say that. You said that. I said it’s a nickname for James. 

K: You said Jackson and James.

C: I – I abso

K: You said Jackson and James. Oh my god.

C: I absolutely did not say Jackson. Jackson is the son of Jack. Jackson is a last name in the same way that Chadwick is not a first name for most people. It’s a last name.

K: Okay, whatever, just tell the story. See, again, me being rude cutting you off.

C: I said

K: And bossy with a boss face.

C: I said James, and you said, “what about Jackson?” I said “okay, I guess it could be.” Which is not suggesting it. It’s agreeing with you. 

K: But then go on like the long list. Because

C: So, I looked it up, as we do, and it’s like… Jack is an abbreviation of John, or James, or Joaquin, or – I think that was the one I was like

K: Yeah, Joaquin was the strangest to me. 

C: Yeah. And it just said basically Jack was the – the abbreviation of basically any man’s name in the U.K. – in England.

K: Yes. And now, you can be Jack. You can be a Japanese person who is also Black. But I like Blackanese better.

C: That’s what I said. I think it’s clearer.

K: Yeah. It is clearer. And so, Rasta’s babies will be Blackanese, and they will know they’re Blackanese with their crowns. With their beautiful crowns. 

C: I think Japan is not as ethnically homogenous

K: And I will sing to them “beautiful people have afros.”

C: Japan is not as ethnically homogenous as some people think that it is because there are distinct ethnic groups within Japan who are all considered Japanese. So, yes, if you define everybody whose, let’s say, great-great grandparents were born in Japan to be Japanese, then sure. It’s technically homogenous. But there are Japanese people who are lighter skinned and darker skinned and have different physiologies, and when we went to Hokkaido a couple of years ago, there’s the Ainu people who are indigenous to that region. 

K: Yeah.

C: Not descended from immigrants from the Korean peninsula. So, but, I’m White. So, they think you couldn’t possibly be Japanese, and they demand my passport, and I’m like “I live here, I’m not giving you my passport.” And then they want my residence card, and okay you can have my residence card, but I just get annoyed when they like… start at the default of “you’re foreign.”

K: Yeah.

C: And the thing is I’m having this conversation with them in Japanese.

K: I know that part always annoys you.

C: Yeah. I’m explaining the law to you in Japanese that I’m not a tourist, so I’m not required to present my passport.

K: So, what, you don’t think there are any tourists with dope Japanese?

C: I think there are probably some tourists with excellent Japanese. I just think that, when you’re speaking a language that is only native to one country in the world, you should not assume the person fluently speaking it to you is a foreigner. Just because of how they look.

K: That’s true because there are a lot of people who don’t look Japanese that are Japanese. Which is the point you’re making. 

C: Yes. 

K: So, does that make you feel insecure?

C: It doesn’t make me feel insecure because I know the- that they’re wrong. So, I don’t often feel insecure when somebody else is being wrong as long as they don’t have power over me. Because I know that how it’s going to end up is that I’m going to show them my ID, if they’ve upset me I’m going to tell them they can’t take a copy of it, they always want to take a copy of it because us sneaky foreigners are going to run off without the bill or whatever. Who knows why they want a copy of it, but all hotels want a copy. 

K: They don’t take copies of Japanese nationals; I think that’s important to note.

C: Yeah. Some hotels are like “we take copies of everybody’s ID.” If I’m standing in line and they’re taking copies of everybody’s ID, I’m like rock on, have a copy of my ID. But if it’s, you know, ten Japanese people in front of me who don’t even show ID, and then they’re like “where’s your passport, let us have a blood sample,”

K: (laughs)

C: No, I’m going to argue with you about this in Japanese. And I don’t feel insecure about that.

K: See, for me, I find it really triggering because what racism tells you if you let it internalize is that you’re unworthy by virtue of something that was made up. Race is a made-up thing. We’re all part of the human race. We are all human beings. And, like… you all can debate me on that because of DNA testing and all of that, and we can get it into it. We can mix it up. But race is a made-up thing. So… for me, them being – that bit of racism, I find it triggers insecurities like “oh snap here it comes. It’s about to jump off.” And I feel like I have to get ready. I have to get ready for a fight. I have to get ready to prove my worth. I have to get ready to prove that I deserve to be here. And that’s really triggering. And it can start me wondering is there any place on earth that I can go and just be safe.

C: So, it is worse because it’s structural? Because they’re like “this is the hotel rules. This isn’t me personally being a racist, this is just you live in a racist system.”

K: Yes. Absolutely. Because I’m able to ignore that. That the Japanese system is inherently racist. I’m able to ignore it for the most part because I live outside of Japanese society the most. So, a lot of the misogyny, I’m not a victim to it, and also, I’m my own boss, so I really am the head boss in charge. So… yeah. I don’t discriminate against myself at work. I pamper myself. I make my schedule. Like, yeah. Sometimes I do make myself get coffee. I do get all of my clients a beverage, but I don’t think of myself as the tea lady even when I’m getting tea.

C: Interesting.

K: Yeah. And I am a lady. I’m obsessed with my hair again.

C: I’ve never been the tea guy or the coffee guy at work in Japan. When I was younger, I did that at restaurants at things when I was working there, but the least company I worked for – not my current employer – when I would go up to the Tokyo office, they were like “would you like some coffee? What would you like?” Because they had a schedule for everybody who worked in the office all the time to do the coffee. But I was there like ten days a year. They’re not going to put me on the schedule. They all sit around going “why isn’t Chad bringing us our coffee?” 

K: Well, and it was rare. It was rare, random, and always negotiated.

C: That’s what I’m saying, it was about ten days a year.

K: And oftentimes, the office didn’t even know you were coming. Like only two people in the office new you were coming. So, I feel, for the most part, I feel secure. The thing I feel most insecure about is whether or not I’m a good wife to you. And

C: Which you are.

K: Thank you. Because I’d be a horrible wife to me. I would not enjoy being married to me. In the least. I would not enjoy being married to me.

C: Good thing you’re not, then.

K: (laughs) So, I hope you all are happy in whatever relationships you’re in, and if you’re single, I hope you’re happy in the relationship with yourself. And that, even if you’re coupled, I hope you’re happy in the relationship with yourself. Because while I wouldn’t want to be married to me, I do like myself more than dislike myself. And the things that I don’t like about myself I try and change. So, I think for the most part, I feel secure.

C: I think for the most part, I do. I have a few things that consistently make me feel insecure, and I work to battle those. Feel better about them.

K: And you’re dead sexy, by the way. I haven’t perved on you at all this podcast, and they’re going to be like “are we even listening to the Musicks in Japan if Kisstopher hasn’t perved on Chad?”

C: Are you threatening me?

(laughter)

K: I’m threatening you with a good time, baby. 

C: Oh okay.

(laughter)

C: please do threaten me with a good time. 

(laughter)

K: Bye, talk to you next week.

C: Bye-bye.