Both of us have been self-employed at various points, and Kisstopher is now permanently self-employed. It brings both benefits and drawbacks. Note: Because of the lag time in recording (for transcription, art, etc.), Chad talks about being a freelance worker even though he now has a full-time job.

Transcript

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about being self-employed.

C: It’s a little bit too late.

K: (laughs)

C: You’re already self-employed.

K: I’ve been thinking about the differences of being self-employed in the U.S. compared to Japan and the learning curve. So, in the United States – a little bit of work history for me, which might be totally boring – if you’ve read the Adjustment Guidance website, you already know this history. And if you follow us on twitter you probably already know this history. And, yes, shameless plug, follow us on twitter. Yes, I say it every episode. I do. 

C: Because you’re self-employed.

K: (laughs) 

C: You can do that kind of thing.

K: No because I have good agency.

C: Oh, okay.

K: And self-promotion. And I really enjoy promoting myself. I just do.

C: Okay, so you were going to tell a work history story.

K: (laughs) Which ties into self-promotion because to be self-employed, I think the number one key factor for being self-employed in either the United States or Japan is the ability to shamelessly self-promote. You have to be shameless in it, I think.

C: Yeah, I think so. I think to be successful at it takes luck and resources but also just… keep on doing it.

K: Oh, tons of resources.

C: Yeah.

K: So, I found that starting my business in the United States, I was able to start my business for free, so this is a major difference, and starting my business in Japan took grip. Like, a lot of money. Well, I guess I kind of started it for free as well. If I think of… so the difference between the United States and Japan is when I choose to start in re-investing to level up. I think I had to level up a lot quicker, and by level up I mean have my own office and have certain accoutrements for my clients. I think in the United States, because I focused mostly on children and families, that I was able to go to them a lot longer than I was here in Japan.

C: Well, I think growing up, self-employed meant to me that you had your own business. 

K: Mhm.

C: But now in the gig economy, self-employed often means 

K: In the what economy?

C: The gig economy.

K: What’s a gig economy? I always use gig, but I’m not using it the same way you do.

C: It’s like driving for Uber or Lyft or doing things for Task Rabbit or

K: Oh so you’re using it like I use it?

C: Yeah.

K: Like the gig.

C: Yeah.

K: Like just whatever you do for work.

C: Yeah.

K: Like a lot of people have side gigs or side jobs.

C: Right, so this is being called the gig economy because

K: Is it?

C: Yes. 

K: I didn’t know that.

C: You don’t read a lot of economic literature. 

K: I don’t read any economic literature.

C: I read an enormous amount. I read way too much. Because of my self-employment.

K: Okay, so go ahead on. Hit me with it.

C: So in the gig economy, self-employed can mean anything from you’re an independent contractor who doesn’t get treated very well to you’re working for Uber, Lyft, or Dash, or Task Rabbit or whatever just doing gigs or finding things off Craigslist or it can mean you have your own business…

K: Or you’re a youtuber or

C: Yeah. It can mean that you have employees or that you don’t. Or that you have steady income or that you don’t. Self-employed I think now is basically just the opposite of employed full-time.

K: So, I’ve always thought that self-employed meant that you’re securing your own bag, and you’ve got either a bunch of gigs or a main gig. A main gig and side gigs, or your main gig is good enough that you don’t have any side gigs. So, I’ve always thought it was a gig economy. Like, for me.

C: But IKI think that that’s because of… the communities in which we grew up. So, because I grew up Mormon and at least where I was

K: The Mormons are a hella gig community.

C: Yeah. So, at least where I was at, most of the Mormons were better off economically than average Americans. Which is true for Mormons on average. And there were kind of two things – one was the men

K: Because Mormons know how to keep a dollar in their community. Like, they don’t play around. That is something like my people, we have got to get better at keeping Black dollars in Black communities. Seriously. Support Black-owned businesses.

C: So, my dad always had a full-time job. He was a police officer, he was a lawyer, he was in the military, etcetera. And that was true for most of the men. And then the women usually had home-based businesses. But they wouldn’t say they were self-employed. They would say “well, I do things on the side.” So

K: But they were self-employed.

C: I agree with you.

K: Okay.

C: But I’m saying that the – that my impression of what it meant to be self-employed growing up was that it meant being the boss. It meant running your own business.

K: Well, I think the women doing something on the side and Mormons don’t hate me, but you know you all have a history of plural wives. Like I know mainstream Mormonism doesn’t do it anymore, but I really think that gig on the side sort of mentality comes from having multiple wives and 25 kids. You’ve got to have a side gig to feed that many mouths. No one person can feed that many mouths.

C: I think you’ve been watching too much Sister Wives. 

K: No, this predates my opinion of – this predates my viewing of Sister Wives.

C: The Mormons have their own thing, and I’m speaking here as a person who grew up Mormon – like ordained an elder with the Melchizedek priesthood and everything before I decided I just morally could not belong.

K: And I’m speaking as somebody that they courted. 

C: Okay.

K: Who did not get baptized because I wouldn’t lie and say I had quit smoking.

C: Okay, so

K: And drinking.

C: You got milk before meat, which means they didn’t tell you the real of it.

K: Okay.

C: I’m just going to put that out there.

K: Okay.

C: But Mormons are particularly likely to start affiliation scams.

K: I find talking about Mormons to be incredibly boring.

C: Okay. 

K: (laughs)

C: So, I’ll just say

K: We’re talking about being self-employed. I don’t want this to be an exposition on the Mormon church. It’s so boring to me.

C: So my mom did two things for money: one was she sewed for money, which I thought of as being self-employed, and the other was that she ran Tupperware parties and Creative Circle parties and different multilevel marketing stuff. 

K: Okay.

C: Which I don’t think that’s self-employed.

K: I think that’s self-employed. If you decide what you do for money, you are self-employed.

C: I think that for some people, it’s self-employment, but for a lot of people it’s just a lot of money out of their pocket that they never see back. So

K: So if you’re saying that people have a hobby that they sometimes sell the goods of – so, for me, self-employed is if you are doing it for the purpose of making money, and you get to decide how you make money, you’re self-employed.

C: Okay. So, yeah, I guess a lot of people are self-employed – we’re both self-employed by that measure.

K: Yes. So, for me, the difference between being self-employed in the U.S. and self-employed in Japan – another major difference is scheduling, which if you listen to our podcast, you know my schedule is the bane of my existence. And, culturally, so… in the month of December, specifically, in the United States, I would know that I could take from the 25th -0 actually from the 22nd of December through the 3rd of January. No clients. 

C: Right.

K: Like I would know that people would book on the 22nd and then cancel.

C: Uh-huh.

K: And so I would just take from the 22nd through the 3rd – sometimes through the 5th – of January just off. Just like… nothing. And in Japan, depending on what day of the week the 25th falls on, unless it falls on a Sunday or Monday, I have work every 25th of December. Since starting my own business, and everybody’s shocked. But all my Japanese clients come in, and all my atheist clients come in, and so it’s like

C: Yeah, when I wasn’t

K: Yeah, I’m open for business. Like

C: When I had a full-time job, so when I wasn’t self-employed

K: Mhm.

C: I had a person I was managing ask me “do you think it would be okay to get the 25th off because I want to celebrate Christmas? Did I ask too late?” They were asking in August. “Did I ask too late? Did everybody else already get it off because everybody wants Christmas off other than” – “you are literally the only person in the company who wants that day off, so it’s totally fine to have that day off, I’ll mark it on your calendar.”

K: And so, I, now, I close from -0 and interestingly enough – I’m open on the 31st. Unless it’s a Sunday or Monday because the 1st is a family holiday, so it’s not – the 31st, New Years Eve, is not a drinking holiday in Japan.

C: Right.

K: So everybody goes out of town, but most people are like “hey, can I stop by and get an appointment” and I don’t usually work late on the 31st because everybody wants to head out of town, so they book earlier in the day, and then

C: It’s usually not a 10 o’clock night for you.

K: Yeah. And then I have the 1st to the 4th off.

C: Yeah, which pretty much everybody in Japan does.

K: yeah. I think usually the – I don’t’ know, it varies – depending on what day of the week they fall on, I’ll do the 1st to the 3rd, or the 1st to the 4th, but I almost always work on the 25th, and people are shocked by it – like “clutch my pearls.” 

C: (laughs) There are so many pearls here in Japan being clutched

K: They were. People are clutching pearls left and right. So, what days do you take off? Because you’re self-employed.

C: Yeah. I take off Sunday and Monday, so we can have those days off together.

K: Yes. Because we luxuriate.

C: Yes. So, I’m – I do a lot of different things for work. I will do math for work. I will do editing for work. I’m just putting myself out there. I’ll program for work, whatever. 

K: Why don’t’ you say – instead of saying “I would” why don’t you say “I do math, I program, I” why are you being so precious?

C: In case people want to know. Like, would you do it for me though?

K: But if you just say “I do” instead of “I would do”

C: Okay, yes.

K: Like you’re acting like you don’t do these things for work. And this is literally what you do for work. In addition to your writing.

C: I have a particular set of skills that I employ to make money, yes. So, yeah.

K: Why are you being so coy?

C: I don’t’ know why I’m being coy.

K: See this goes back to – here, let me show you how to do it. So, my husband with a PhD in math does math tutoring, solves math problems, and does data analysis for work. My husband, who has over twenty years’ experience programming, does programming for work – but here’s the thing with the programming. If he tells you a timeline, he’s not messing around, that’s the timeline he means. And he’s very specific about what the program will achieve and will not achieve, and you don’t get to tinker. You don’t get to be like “oh, you know how to do this – now let’s do this, now let’s do that.” Nope. It’s “this is what the gig is, this is what we agreed upon” so you’ll get exactly what you paid for. And if he finds it interesting, he might negotiate giving you a little extra. And that’s mostly because of me. I’m super strict about programming – because you are a genius programmer. 

C: Thank you.

K: And you’re recognized among like the highest echelons of programming as being a genius programmer. Like, the top programmers in the Bay Area.

C: I’m not supposed to have told you about that. 

K: Yeah. But the top programmers in the Bay Area, who are now retired because they’re genius programmers, all anointed you when we first met. Like “yes, he really is as genius as he seems.”

C: Yeah. And then I also edit, so I’ve edited more than ten million words of academic stuff, and I do academic editing

K: Again, as someone with over ten years of editing, who has given talks, and taught lessons on academic writing and professional writing for the purpose of being published in journals. 

C: Yes.

K: Shameless plug.

C: Okay. Yeah. So, I edit, which is mo

K: (laughs)

C: Well, most of my editing comes through agencies. So, this is like… part of being self-employed is that you can go out and get the work yourself directly from the customers or for some types of jobs, you can get it through third parties. So most of my academic editing work comes through agencies. 

K: So do you think it would be different in the United States?

C: I think it would be somewhat different in the United States because I know some of the agencies that I work for –

K: Oh my gosh some of you guys heard my stomach growling, I’m sorry. I do not know why I don’t eat before we record. 

C: You are always hungry during the podcast.

K: Yes. I am always starving because I think “let’s just record an episode right quick, and then I’ll get something to eat.”

C: Mmm. So maybe

K: I don’t know what I’m eating today.

C: Maybe when you’re hungry, you think “I’m hungry for listens.”

K: Yeah, there we go. Yes. I’m so sorry everyone who didn’t laugh at that joke. 

C: Yeah. I’m sorry, too, you missed out on some good humor.

K: (laughs)

C: So some of the agencies that I work for are not legally allowed to hire people from certain states.

K: What?

C: Yeah, like they can’t legally hire people from New York. One of the agencies that I get work through.

K: What?

C: So I do think it would be different in the U.S.

K: Wait, what are you talking about they can’t legally hire people from New York? Like, what are you on about?

C: Because of the, like… different protections and things that different states have.

K: Different protections for work, like you can’t

C: Labor protections. So, with editing, I get paid by the word, which means that if I’m really slow I might potentially make less than minimum wage

K: Ah okay. Gotcha.

C: Like… I’m using the general I.

K: So what about that place where you bid for work?

C: Yeah, there’s Upwork and things. That’s part of the gig economy. A lot of gig workers work for less than minimum wage effectively.

K: So is that illegal in the state of New York? Like, if you do work that’s less than minimum wage?

C: I’m’ not sure if that’s the specific reason that that’s not available in New York for that one company. So, 

K: Okay, so you just know for this one company, they can’t hire people in New York.

C: Correct.

K: What? That is so weird. So you don’t actually know why.

C: I actually don’t know why.

K: Okay. 

C: And I don’t live in New York, so I don’t care why. And they’re one of my worst-paying agencies, so they’re the bottom of my priority list. So I find that being self-employed is a lot about priorities and risks. Like, how much do I prioritize developing relations with people in the community, for example, which we’ve talked about before. Knowing that I might spend six months developing a relationship to get, you know, some work doing analysis of their data for them or something like that, and then they are transferred, and I’ve lost all that work. So, being self-employed, I only get paid for certain things. I don’t get paid for every moment. Just like you don’t.

K: Yeah. I think that you’re self-employed because of my pushing you to be self-employed.

C: Yes.

K: And because we have permanent residency.

C: Yes.

K: And so, for me, the reason that I’m self-employed is because I’ve been employed – because I’ll just be honest, I’m the worst employee. I have such a bad attitude.

C: You do.

K: And I’m really hard to work with as a coworker because I don’t enjoy small-talk, I don’t enjoy gossip. In the workplace. And I really do not enjoy, at work, talking smack about the clients. I don’t enjoy it, I don’t tolerate it because I feel like, you know, you’ve got to respect the people who are coming and giving you their resources. Because everybody’s time, energy, attention, and money are all valuable resources, and if you’re going to talk smack about your clients and disrespect your clients and all of that, ain’t nobody got time for that. I don’t want to hear it. So, as coworkers, people making fun of somebody coming into an establishment where you work, I feel like “girl, they’re the reason you have a gig, have some respect.” And I’m not saying I love and adore every single client, and there are clients that I’m not a good fit for, that I do help transition to a different therapist.

C: Right.

K: If you know we’re not a right fit. But that’s very different from talking smack about someone. So I find that here’s conflict between – and I usually don’t enjoy talking smack about bosses. So I’m not a fun coworker to have. And I think it’s because I’ve been a boss, so

C: Yeah. And you’re not a fun boss, either.

K: No, I am not f un boss. I am en exacting boss. I am so for real about my money. I am so for real. If I have paid you to do something, you need to do what I’ve paid you to do.

C: Yeah, so I find that’s interesting, and that is what I was saying at the very start about resources. You tend to hire professionals and let them do their thing, and then when you’re like “this is not what we agreed to, fix it.” They do because they’re professionals.

K: Yes. So everyone that I work with, so the Adjustment Guidance team, if you’ve looked at the Adjustment Guidance website, it’s really vague who the team is. Because the team changes. And so I have a bunch of piecemeal and side things I do, and a bunch of associates that we’re affiliated, but we don’t want to be under each other’s umbrella. 

C: Yeah.

K: Like I have a psychiatrist that I work with here in Japan for like a decade, but she does not work for me. She is part of the team.

C: And you do not work for her.

K: Right. But I am part of her team because she refers all of her English-speaking clients to me. I refer all of my clients who need medication to her. So, she is part of the team, and she has her own business, and so to include her on the website and list her on the website, she would only want to be listed in Japanese, and so that changes what my website would need to be able to do because she would want to be listed in Japanese and English. And so I’m like “mmm, okay, we’re just going to call you part of the team and leave that vague.” 

C: Yeah.

K: And then for professional interpretation, I have a specific person who I use for that, but they don’t want to be lis- they don’t want to have people contact them directly, so a lot of my team members, “we will do things for you because we know that you will have the conversation for people to bring the right energy.”

C: Yeah.

K: And then, so like the mainstay – the number one team member is me. 

C: Yes.

K: And then my number two is Rasta. He’s my office manager, and, you know, he’s in his mid-twenties. I feel like he’s mid-to-late twenties at this point, but anywho.

C: He’s 25. 

K: Mid to late twenties. That is mid to late twenties.

C: By definition, it’s the middle. It’s mid-twenties.

K: He’s not exactly 25. He’s almost 26.

C: Yeah. 

K: Mid to late twenties. 

C: He’s almost halfway to 26.

K: Mid to late twenties.

C: Okay, fine.

K: Thank you. I will talk about our son the way I choose.

C: Yeah. He’s in his early centuries yet.

K: Yeah. So I’m giving him the “so for real” eyes. 

C: Yeah.

K: (laughs)

C: You’re employing those at me.

K: (laughs) So no, I have people come for me about using “team” and not listing specific people. Like they want to know “do you really have a time” yes I do really have a time, but here’s the other thing. They are not my employees. 

C: Right.

K: So I’m not responsible for their taxes, I’m not responsible for their pension, and I’m not responsible for paying them. My clients

C: They are also self-employed.

K: Yes.

C: And you are not their only client.

K: Yes. Thank you. That was really well put.

C: Yeah. 

K: So do you have a team?

C: I do not have a team. I have people that I refer to who refer to me, but it’s not the same kind of… working relationship because if somebody needs you as a therapist and they need a psychiatrist for medication reasons and things, then they usually continue to work with both of you.

K: Mhm.

C: And it’s more like when you refer somebody to another therapist. I sometimes am not the right person to edit a particular piece of work or do something. Like for some reason every once in a while, I get asked can I translate. And I’m like “well, I’m too slow on Japanese to make it worth it” but I even get asked “can you translate this Chinese document” and I’m like… “no, that’s in Chinese.”

K: (laughs)

C: I don’t speak, read, write, anything Chinese. Just because Japanese looks similar

K: Could you translate German?

C: No. I mean, I could use google translate to get the gist of it and then look at specific words. Because when I’m looking at this

K: I think you could do from German to English.

C: Not quickly enough to be economically reasonable. 

K: Okay.

C: So that’s what I mean about Japanese. I could translate Japanese, but it would be so slow that I should just go work at something else and pay for a translation.

K: Yes.

C: That’s what I’m saying about prioritizing. If I’m spending this time – it really brings home the concept of opportunity cost. If I’m spending this amount of time promoting myself when I could be spending it doing, let’s say, editing… you know, is that time well-spent? Will I make more money overall by spending some time promoting myself to get programming or math work, which tends to pay higher? And get some of that work and spending time directly making money. 

K: Mhm. And so… for me, I feel like I have – I am less risk-averse than you. 

C: Yes. You are definitely less risk-averse because you spent thousands of dollars of money that you had saved from working through agencies to get a lease, get furniture, begin advertising, all of the stuff that you did to start Adjustment Guidance. 

K: Yes. So actually the money that I used to start Adjustment Guidance, I didn’t get from agency work, I got from client work.

C: Okay. See in my mind, it’s all the same.

K: No. Agency work is completely different from

C: No, no. I’m not saying clients and agency are the same. Because I have direct clients and I have agency cli- agency work.

K: Yeah. There are no agencies for therapists in Japan.

C: Right. I know there are no agencies for therapists. 

K: And so to become – so, for me, being self-employee, the first thing you need to ask yourself is how much money do you have in savings?

C: Yeah.

K: I feel like that’s the place you have to start, and I always advice people in addition to whatever their startup capital is, that they should have a years’ worth of bills in the bank for savings so that they can live off of that before they decide to become self-employed.

C: See, and I think you here you’re using “self-employed” in the “running your own business” kind of sense of the word.

K: Yes. I am.

C: So, what I was saying

K: No, I think anybody who’s going to move from the land of guaranteed income to unguaranteed income

C: Okay, yes, that is a very different thing.

K: Should have a years’ worth of bills in the bank.

C: Yeah. But it’s not always possible. So, I think some jobs can trap you. And becoming self-employed is not necessarily a fix for that.

K: So I’ve – I don’t think, so I feel like you’re going to give people bad advice but go ahead. Because we are – so I have to disclaim we are not giving anybody advice. We are stating opinions, and we are not responsible for the choices you make.

C: Yeah.

K: At all. So I’m saying a years’ worth of bills in the bank, plus your startup capital, so I know that cuts a large swath of the population out of starting your own business, unless you’re going to start your business with a caveat, unless you’re going to start your business as a side-0hustle. And then once your side hustle can pay all of your bills, you should have at least three or four months. Because there are months where like half my book goes out of town, and then lucky for me, because the way my intakes flow, and the way I do my schedule, that usually – see now I have to knock on wood – that usually doesn’t have me making less than my bills.

C: Yeah. Okay so

K: But there are months that I don’t turn a profit, just real talk. Where I make enough to pay all of the bills. 

C: So where you say “side-hustle” I typically think of agency work, and I think that’s just the difference in our fields.

K: You think of what?

C: Agency work.

K: No, I think of side hustle as like being an Instagram model. Selling your own sunglasses. Selling purses, having an etsy. Like…

C: Okay. Interesting.

K: Yeah. Or like I did. I was teaching English and doing therapy. Teaching English was my mainstay. It made more money than therapy in the beginning, so being a therapist was my side hustle.

C: Yeah. So you started – you were a full-time English teacher, and then you switched to agency work because you wanted more freedom, and that gave you the freedom to start your side hustle. 

K: Yes.

C: Which you then invested that money into making it a full-time, your full-time work.

K: No, and then I got so much work on my side hustle that I was able to quit the agency work, and then from the money I made from – because I didn’t start an office until I had enough savings from client work to invest in that. Because it was expensive. It was super expensive.

C: Yes. So, I know that I’ve talked to employers here in Japan – I’m not going to call them friends because they’re not – who

K: You’re not going to call them what?

C: Friends because they’re not.

K: (laughs) 

C: I’ve talked to employers her in Japan

K: And they’re extortive and mercenary because I know who you’re thinking of, and they are horrible people to work for.

C: And they are just like “yeah, I’m going to have – I found out my employee had a side-gig on this night, so I rescheduled them for that night.”

K: Yes, because they are horrible people.

C: Yeah.

K: You know who you are if you’re listening.

C: Okay. Employers

K: We think you’re a horrible boss.

C: Employers, don’t do that. Because here’s the thing. I know that employers worry about people wanting to be self-employed. And I think everybody is going to have that urge at some point to do things for themselves.

K: Yes.

C: and employers who support side hustles, I think – the research backs me up on this – the employees are happier and stay longer. You can’t trap somebody – like there are specific people you can trap, but if you have a general policy of trapping people working for you, you will lose more employees than if you support people.

K: Yes. 

C: So one of the things I really like about my previous job is how supportive they’ve been of all of my endeavors. 

K: Yeah. They really have been. Really nice company. Great owner, wonderful person.

C: And I knew that when I as working for them because it’s an agency, so we work with a lot of people that had formerly been employees. We sent them work as an agency. So, for me, self-employment is more about the… taking the risks and – in order to reap the reward.

K: Mhm.

C: And I think that you can have a job that is so crappy that anything is better than that. So, I don’t fault people who quit jobs and say that it wasn’t even worth going to work because I think sometimes that’s literally true. Like, the jobs do things that prevent you from growing in any way. 

K: So, what do you think is – so for me, I don’t feel like there’s a difference in deciding to have to be self-employed in the United States or in Japan except for this major caveat. If you are a foreigner living in Japan, you’ve got to secure that visa. And so I was very fortunate that I was always able to secure my visa, and there are – for everything you do, you have to make a certain amount of money based on how many people are in your household. And so I was always very fortunate that because we had two employed people in our household that we could always have -be making enough money when we have to go and show enough, like, okay are we each making enough money to support a visa, and the answer is yes. And so because we’re married, they allow us to be under one household. So if you’re a single person who’s not married or if you’re doing a single visa, then you have to make X amount of yen.

C: Right.

K: Specific to Japan. And so I always tell people “secure your visa and make sure you understand what it takes to have a visa. And make sure that you’re communicating with immigration about what you’re doing, make sure you’re being honest with immigration about what you’re doing.” And I have people that don’t take this advice and get invited to leave. 

C: Yeah.

K: I’ve had several clients over the years that are invited to leave because they didn’t secure their visa and they thought “well, I have two years left on my visa, I have two years left to figure it out.” And I’m like “no you don’t. You don’t have two years; you have 90 days.” When you quit your job, you have – you’re supposed to report any time you quit your job within 30 days of quitting that job. 

C: Yeah, that’s a change since 2013, so that wasn’t the case when we came her.

K: Yeah, but now. So the reason that I’m up on immigration law now in Japan is because I’ve had so many clients that have run afoul.

C: Yeah.

K: And, too, Rasta takes people to immigration all the time. So that’s one of the things that we do for some clients because I don’t like anybody to feel trapped. I like everybody to be empowered, I like everyone to know their rights.

C: Yeah because you literally need, if you’re not Japanese and you’re here in Japan, you literally need permission to have a side hustle.

K: Yes, you do. Real talk. Like, they are not playing around. If you are doing – because I was doing activities outside of my visa, and I had to get permission to do activities outside of my visa, an explanation of what those activities were, why I wanted to do those activities, what were my intentions. What was the intended outcome of those activities? And so… people come to me all the time like “how did you get your visa?” Well the visa I had when all of this started doesn’t exist anymore, and now I’m a permanent resident, and it’s none of your dang business. But I share – you know, I do visa talk because

C: But I follow the law.

K: Yeah.

C: Like when I was working for my previous company, I had a specialist in Humanities visa, which is like most foreigners

K: Does that visa still exist? I think now they’ve switched it and broken it down

C: It still exists. It’s specialist in Humanities, international specialty, and engineering are all one visa. So it still exists. 

K: No, I think engineering is its own separate visa now.

C: Engineering used to be its own sperate visa, which had a ten-year experience requirement. It got lumped in with this to make it easier to hire software engineers overseas.

K: Oh okay. Was that for the Mitsubishi JET push?

C: No, it was before that. It was actually other Japanese companies who wanted to hire programmers because programming in Japan is woefully, woefully behind.

K: Okay.

C: So that’s an entire – I could do an entire podcast about how

K: I don’t think they’re “woefully, woefully behind” because Android was developed in Japan.

C: Okay, you won’t know how behind this is, but most database administrators

K: (laughs) He just made the “shhh” motion to me. Like, with his hands. He did a hand that was like “calm down honey, don’t talk.” 

C: Okay. Anybody who knows the tech world, prepare to be shocked.

K: Making the hand motion again.

C: Most people who are a database administrator in Japan used Excel as their database.

K: So I find that to be shocking, so I do know.

C: Okay.

K: Ew.

(laughter)

K: I know more than you think I do.

C: Well if you’re in Silicon Valley and you’re like “I’m a programmer, I’m a software engineer” everybody’s like “ooh, that’s a great job.” In Japan, if you say, “I’m a programmer, I’m a software engineer” they’re like “wow, I’m sorry you have such a crappy job.” It’s not well compensated, it’s long, grueling hours, so they struggle to find people.

K: Mm. So do – what do you think should be the number one consideration for being self-employed in Japan? I think visa.

C: I think visa. And I think that translates to the UI.S. too. Not necessarily

K: Visa?

C: Well not if you’re American. It’s not a visa. But it’s about the portability of your job, and your ability to stay where your money is. Because I think that if you’re here in Japan, if you don’t care whether you’re deported, and you build a

K: I think everybody cares whether or not they’re deported.

C: Well, nobody wants to go through deportation proceedings. But if you don’t care about moving on at a certain point.

K: That’s very different from not caring about being deported.

C: Yes. Yes. I should be more careful with my language.

K: Because I know several people who were told they had to

C: Get out?

K: Yeah. They had to show immigration a plane ticket within 48 hours, and they had 30 days to leave. But they had to buy the plane ticket within 48 hours to avoid deportation proceedings.

C: Yeah. You don’t like those prices. You want to give it at least three weeks to get good plane ticket prices.

K: (laughs) Well that’s why they have a month, but they have to buy the ticket within 48 hours, and they have 30 days to wrap up their

C: Yeah, their affairs.

K: Because Japan really doesn’t want to have to pay the expense. Because if they deport you they have to pay for the flight. 

C: Right. So, I think that whether you’re in Japan or you’re in the U.S. if your business is online, if you – like most of my work, well, yeah, 95% of my work is online. I do very little in person except teach. And I teach workshops only. I don’t teach like regular classes. Then I can move anywhere in the world and keep my same business for the most part. Some of my clients only use me because I’m in Japan, and so they know that, like if there’s any breach of confidentiality, it will be handled through the Japanese courts. I would lose them if I moved from Japan. But I would keep most of my work.

K: Mhm.

C: so a visa for me wouldn’t be as important if I were single and unattached and all of that kind of thing.

K: Yeah.

C: But if I was

K: I think it would be as important because you still want to stay in Japan.

C: For me personally, but when I’m saying when people are thinking about whether they want to be self-employed, the self-employment that I’ve built is very different from the self-employment that you have built.

K: And you wouldn’t do self-employment until you had permanent residency. 

C: Right. 

K: So visa was your number one consideration.

C: Absolutely, because of my personal characteristics. 

K: Okay.

C: But the self-employment you have built, if you left Nagoya, you would lose all of that and have to start over.

K: Yes. Which is why, when you had the offer to move to

C: Tokyo, well Shinagawa, but yeah.

K: Holland.

C: Oh, Denmark.

K: Oh, Denmark. I couldn’t remember where. Denmark. I was like “no. No. I can’t do this again.” Because this is the second time starting over for me – starting a business.

C: Yeah. And you’ve said no to even as far as Shinagawa, which is like an hour and a half from her.

K: Yeah, no. Because that is starting completely over. My business is completely geographically locked.

C: So, I thin when people are looking at being self-employed

K: Even though I do skype, but most people want to come and sit across from me and have that interaction.

C: Yeah. So I knew people in Alaska who were self-employed, and I knew people in the Bay Area who were self-employed. And some of the people in the Bay Area who were self-employed thought “well, I’m going to build up this business I’m going to make the money doing it, and save up to move somewhere else” not thinking about they would then have to start entirely over when they moved. 

K: Mmm.

C: And so I think if you’re going to do that, then self-employment might not be right for you because it can take a while to pay off.

K: Unless you’re doing something that’s not land- that’s not geographically based.

C: Yeah, unless you’re doing something portable. Because things are much more portable now. There was like – telecommuting was a thing, obviously, when we moved her.

K: Yeah. And telecommuting was a thing – has ben a thing for decades.

C: Yea.

K: Because my mom did telecommuting back in the 60s.

C: Right.

K (laughs) Okay, I only know for sure in the 70s, but she reported doing telecommuting in the 60s.

C: Well, and I know online classes are a big thing now, but I did classes by mail in the 80s.

K: Yeah, and my mom did some classes by mail.

C: Yeah. So I think if you’re going to be self-employed, you have to consider how you’re going to maintain that self-0employment. So, when you say “have a years’ worth of bills in the bank as well as startup capital” that’s awesome advice. But I think that you also have to consider how you are going to maintain your ability to continue being self-employed.

K: Well and too, I think that’s my privilege showing because the first time I started my business, I didn’t have any of that.

C: right.

K: I started it as a side hustle, so I was… working for a company and then – I had two jobs, and a side job. 

C: So, when I switched – when I moved from Alaska. The last job I had in Alaska; I was working at McDonald’s. I was a shift manager there. And then I moved to California to become a programmer.

K: Mhm.

C: But I didn’t have a job when I moved. I just had all of my stuff in a cardboard box that broke open on the luggage belt. I had to collect all my stuff.

K: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, you are such – yes, poor you.

C: Poor me.

K: But you weren’t coming here to be sel- you weren’t coming here, like we’re still in California – you weren’t coming to California to be self-employed.

C: Not in a technical sense.

K: Not in any sense. In no sense.

C: So maybe this is Japan changing my thinking. 

K: Uh-huh.

C: Because in Japan, I think that if you move jobs every year, you’re treating yourself like you’re self-employed. Because the expectation is that you work places for

K: Uh-huh. Skeptical brow.

C: 5, 10, 15… 40 years.

K: Mhm.

C: Like the lifetime employment thing. So I think that there’s

K: Oh my gosh.

C: This is what I was saying I think there’s a difference between like the mentality of “I’m doing this for money and it’s temporary” or “I’m doing this in order to make as much money as possible” so I think that even people who have a regular job – who have full-time employment – can benefit from am understanding of self-employment because they can look at their career and see “is it better for my career to stay at my current job or to move?”

K: That’s not self-employment. Self-employment means you do not have a guaranteed income. That you are the only person that you can rely on for money. I have no corporate structure supporting my income. My income is not guaranteed.

C: See, and I feel like my income was never guaranteed beyond a certain point. Like even at the last company that I was at.

K: You had a set amount that you were guaranteed to make. 

C: See,

K: For me, so – okay, trip on this: in February, my guaranteed income is zero. Because I currently have no appointments scheduled in February. Well, that’s not true, I’m so lucky my Tuesdays and Wednesdays are completely booked beyond then, but if my Tuesdays and Wednesdays were not completely booked beyond then, then I would have no income. There is a certain point in time when you can stretch out my book and se zero appointments on the book. And if there are zero appointments on the book, I have – and none of these appointments that the clients have booked are guaranteed because everybody can call me up and cancel today, and there’s no penalty. And I would have zero income.

C: Okay, see, this is my point. California is an at-will state, which means that even if you’re working for somebody else, they can come in and fire you because it’s Tuesday.

K: Yes, but until they fire you, and there are certain rules and regulations – so like the reasons that my clients can cancel: because. 

C: Yeah.

K: I can not just fire you because.

C: It’s a level of guarantee. But like the company that I was working at

K: Oh my gosh, you’re stretching.

C: Right? I know that the company I was working at, they have a bond out. 

K: Mhm.

C: To pay everybody that they owe money to. But, they could have collapsed at any point, and I would have gotten paid for the work I had done, but then I would have ben out of work. 

K: Mhm.

C: So I think that people who say “Well I don’t need to worry about this self-employment stuff, I don’t need to worry about how do I guarantee my income, how do I build myself toward my next, because I have a job, so I don’t have to worry about that” are being naïve. Because a lot of people in Silicon Valley lost their jobs because their companies went under. 

K: But that’s different than being self-employed.

C: It is different from being self-employed.

K: So if you’re saying be fiscally responsible, be cautious, make sure that you’re going to be able to put food on the table, that’s different than being self-employed.

C: Yes. It is. 

K: And so I think that for you, you had a lot of interest and envy in the lifetime employment in Japan, but that lifetime employment doesn’t exist anymore in Japan.

C: No, no.

K: It’s rare. There’s people who are still in the lifetime employment scheme, but this generation that’s coming up now – the millennials, it’s really rare that a millennial will have a lifetime employment gig.

C: Well and things are changing, like, for the better in other directions, too, so that’s more complicated, but I think that being self-employed is not for everybody because there is more risk even if you’re doing well.

K: you’re assuming all of the risk all of the time.

C: Yea. I feel like

K: I feel the pressure of it.

C: See, and I feel like I spread it out. I feel like I have multiple – not to be too douchey – but I have multiple income streams because I have different agencies that I know on average they’re going to send me this much work, and so

K: For me though, the stress is being responsible for someone else’s paycheck. 

C: Mm. Yeah. 

K: Like, that

C: So now you’re talking about being somebody’s boss.

K: Yes. And that’s a consideration for being self-employed. At what point do you decide to bring on employees? And then it makes it even more stressful for me having it be a relative, and even more stressful having it be my son. Because I’m now having to guarantee my son’s quality of life, and so that’s super high pressure.

C: Yeah. 

K: And it causes me to try and be as responsible as I can on the business side of things.

C: Right.

K: And so that’s – I think the years’ worth of bills in the bank comes from my mother. My mother grilled that into me. Like “you always want to have a years’ worth of bills in the bank, you always want to have a years’ worth of bills in the bank.” And that is such a privileged way to think, and such a privileged way to live, to be able to make that kind of money, and so I’m humbled and honored that I’m able to live that lifestyle.

C: Okay, so here’s I think a final question for you on that, then: at what point, if you’re running a company, is your company making so much money that you’re no longer self-employed?

K: Never, if it’s your company. You’re always self-employed.

C: So does that change if a company goes public? Are you then not self-employed?

K: So if my last name is Toyota, and I work for Toyota, and I am a descendant of Toyota, I’m self-employed.

C: Interesting. See, because I don’t think of that as that at all. I think of the whole structure

K: Just because you create a structure, if you’re at the top of that structure

C: I think that if you’re working with Toyota, you’re on Toyota’s – and you’re working for them, you have

K: If you have a board, and you no longer have the autonomy

C: Right

K: So for me, I, Kisstopher, I will never have a board

C: Right

K: And so like

C: Well you wouldn’t be able to do any – it wouldn’t make any sense because you wouldn’t be able to expand with the investment or anything. You’re a professional, you offer professional services.

K: Yes. Like, for example, I want to become a full-time podcaster. I’m putting that out into the universe. I want it to happen. It’s on my vision board. I don’t really have a vision board, but I like saying it. But it’s something that I want to do, and so for me, I would need to see the podcast bringing in the same amount of money as Adjustment Guidance for six consecutive months before I start to pare down the work that I do at Adjustment Guidance to replace it with podcasting work.

C: Yea.

KL: Because I would like to eventually replace Adjustment Guidance with podcasting work, but I think the lowest I could ever get Adjustment Guidance, looking at my book right now and the commitments I’ve made, would be probably down to two days a week. I don’t see myself ever being able to do less than two days a week. Because I have certain clients I’ve made long-term commitments to, and I plan to keep those commitments.

C: Yeah.

K: Don’t freak out, guys. 

(laughter)

C: Yeah, you have

K: I’m committing to you all, if I’ve said I’m going to be here as long as you’re here, and I’ve made that commitment to you, I’m not closing down the business. But then that would change, like… how much space I need. Because I have a lot of space right n ow. So that would reduce rents and different things, so… because I’m thinking would I – no, a couple of people drive. I’m thinking about “when will I get rid of the parking space?” I don’t know.

(laughter)

K: I pay for the parking space. So basically the bottom line is for me, doing – having my own business in Japan, the major difference is visa. And knowing the seasonal flow. 

C: Mhm.

K: And – but everything else is pretty much the same for me.

C: It is pretty much the same. It is pretty easy to file paperwork, it’s straightforward if you want to do a DBA, a doing business as, it’s got basically the same corporate structures, they just have different names – so yeah, it’s pretty straightforward.

K: Yeah, so that was – I hope you found our talk today interesting. Because today we’re talking about being self-employed because that’s what’s on my mind because it’s again one of those scheduling times, and I’m thinking about my schedule and thinking about what it means to be the boss and

C: And how we schedule in podcasting because right now it’s our side-gig.

K: Yup, it’s our side-gig, and I want it to be our main gig. Putting that out there, you know. So give us love. Help make it happen. (laughs)

C: Help us live the dream.

K: Yes. I hope you guys tune in next week. Bye.

C: Bye-bye.