We discuss the state, looking at it from the perspective of foreign residents, of the LBTQIA+ community in Japan, along with our own experiences with those inside and outside the community. Some discussion of sexuality and sexual history.

Content Note

Discussion of childhood sexual assault

Transcript

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about the differences and, for me, of being part of the LGBTQIA+ community in the United States versus in the Japan – in “the” Japan, in Japan, not the Japan.

C: Well, there’s only one of them.

K: Yeah, but it’s made up of 200 islands.

C: Yeah?

K: Yeah. Japan is made up of 200 islands.

C: I didn’t know it was so many.

K: Yeah, there’s- okay, now I’m not sure. Oh man, we don’t google stuff on this show so good ahead and – we’re coming out the gate with go ahead fact check me and hit us up on social media, tell us if I’m wrong, I don’t know, but in my reality Japan is made up of 200 islands.

C: The people might like something to do.

K: (laughs) 

C: I know there are a lot of islands.

K: Yeah, and I know, you know, our peeps – everybody who is part of the Musick fam, and I consider everyone who listens part of the Musick fam, they do like to send us tweets about things I’ve gotten wrong or things, more often in my reality, you’ve gotten wrong.

C: So feel free to send us tweets about things we’ve gotten right, too.

K: Yeah, no, we love the positive reinforcement on Twitter, but I’m really super happy with our twitter life. They’re super supportive. Which, check out this, circling back around

C: Okay.

K: I feel like we have a large following that are part of the LGBTQIA+ community at large. Globally.

C: Yeah, I feel like we do.

K: So for me the difference – for me, being part of the community was a political act in the United States more so than it’s a political act here in Japan. And I think that has to do with the time of year that it happened. So, in the United States, all of- I didn’t really march, before we decided to move. I think I had stopped marching. I think since you and I got married, I stopped marching, but I used to go- prior to our marriage, I used to go every year to gay pride and live it up in San Francisco. And here in Japan, I don’t do any of that stuff for two reasons: one, the Japanese summer is brutal and I’m sick for 62 days from the beginning of July to the end of August, and I’m just crawling through the days trying to survive because of my lupus and HCP. And because I just don’t feel – and this might be because of the language or what have you, but I just don’t feel like there is an LGBTQIA+ struggle here in Japan. It doesn’t feel like they’re fighting for rights.

C: No, it’s definitely because of the language.

K: Okay.

C: I’ve had coworkers – I had a gay coworker who definitely was part of the struggle for rights. It just takes a different form in Japan. Like, the San Francisco pride parade thing of making a lot of noise – while they happen here, are more about community celebration than political advancement. And I think that’s true now for the pride parades in the U.S. is that often they’re just for community celebration and not aimed at advancing political agendas.

K: And that’s where you’re wrong. So, both pride parades in United States and here in Japan are marches for rights. And so they are marches. Like, there’s a parade and celebration connected to the march. And so some people march, and some people just do the parade. And in the United States, they combined the march with the parade, but the march sis a public statement and is very, very political. 

C: I knew it was a public statement of “look how many people we are. Look at how much support we have.”

K: But it’s also marching for rights.

C: Okay.

K: For advancements of rights. Because in the United States, I think there’s something like 48 states that you can still be fired in

C: I think it’s down to 27, still more than

K: I know it’s still legal in some states where you can get fired for being gay. 

C: Yes. 

K: I don’t think you can be fired for being gay in Japan, but I know that Japan doesn’t have American quality.

C: Well, if you’re a regular employee, it’s really hard to get fired. You have a lot of protections. And if you’re not, they can fire you for basically anything, so… I’m not sure the employment situation is

K: If you’re a contract employee, I know contract employees, being a therapist, I know contract employees that have shown up to work drunk because I work with people who have substance abuse issues – some of my clients do- and they show up to work drunk and they can’t be fired because you have to prove that they have done the thing that you said they’ve done, if they have a contract, and you have to go through steps. There’s, you have to have a casual conversation, a formal conversation that’s documented, and then there’s like one or two write-ups, and then you can warn them that you’re going to fire them, and then you can terminate them. The most popular way is to force people out through negative treatment.

C: Yes.

K: And so basically you just start bullying someone you want to fire.

C: Yeah. 

K: Trying to make them quit.

C: So, I think that… what I meant was that it’s really hard to fire somebody within the terms of their employment.

K: Yeah. 

C: So, for regular employees, that’s basically a lifetime. It’s really hard to fire somebody. Contract employees, it’s hard to fire them mid-contract. It’s really easy to not renew.

K: Yeah, because you don’t need cause. You can just say “we’re not renewing you.”

C: Right. So, I think as far as legal recognition, in Japan the struggle is for marriage recognition more so than labor regulation because there’s already pretty strong labor laws in place, and there’s a lot of abuse within the labor system that’s kind of beyond the scope of this topic.

K: So, I think something too that is a significant difference that impacts my impression is that Japan is not a physical contact country. So, there’s not- like you see couples, some couples now in the modern era are holding hands, but in terms of women holding hands, that could be friendship.

C: Yeah.

K: So, I had a girl friend a few years back, just a female friend, not a romantic friend, and she- her favorite thing was to hold me by my waist or link arms and arms.

C: Mhm.

K: and we’re still really close, and sometimes just randomly kiss me. Heterosexual woman, and that was just her affection behavior. And I think in Nagoya, there’s such a blend from different countries. Like, I had another Japanese girl friend – I guess I should say Japan is not a physical country because here I am talking about all the physicality.

C: Yes.

K: Traditionally, it wasn’t a physical country. So, because you bow, but my female friends are quite physical with me in terms of like rubbing my arm or- so, I would not be able to tell. And we see young boys touching each other on the train all the time, and younger men touching themselves all the time, and it’s really common for- because male makeup lines are huge here in Japan, which I think is a rip-off but it’s interesting because it’s the reverse of the pink tax. The male makeup costs twice as much as female makeup. So, I’m like “yay” – so the pink tax is whenever they make something more expensive for women than they do for men. And in the United States, it’s really common like women’s shampoo, conditioner, deodorant, all those kinds of things are more expensive for women than it is for men. 

C: That also includes things like the euphemistic feminine hygiene products that men don’t have to buy – that cis men don’t have to buy.

K: And healthcare.

C: Yeah, and that’s all part of that. But I think the makeup is interesting. I wonder if the theory is that the men who are more likely to work can afford it more easily.

K: I don’t know. See, and that’s the thing about being outside the culture of it.

C: Or if they just assume they do not know what they should be paying for makeup

K: And so, I think that could be it too, that they don’t how much this stuff is supposed to cost. Or maybe because it’s patriarchy, maybe they think it’s higher quality than the women’s makeup?

C: Mmm, maybe.

K: But it’s the exact same product just in different packaging. I can tell you it’s the exact same product, so guys out there, if you are paying more, just go in the women’s section and like seriously, it’s the same makeup. Shiseido for men and Shiseido for women: same makeup. Calling them out. Expose.

C: I wonder how much is the Japanese, for lack of better term, “gay coded” stuff is not the same as American “gay coded” things.

K: What do you think is “gay coded”? That’s just it. I don’t think that Japan has as many “gay coded” stuff. And here’s the other thing: pink is a masculine color. Seeing a man dressed from head to toe- okay, for me, the most – one of the most air quote “butch” looks in Japan is so effeminate to me. The auburn hair, curled and shellacked, full face of makeup, pumps – well they’re men’s shoes with the high heel – and colorful clothing with tons of jewelry. For me, that reads as effeminate.

C: Right. And that’s what I’m saying: what’s regarded as gay, what you could say “oh, they’re gay based on the coding” which I know that you can’t tell because I was perceived

K: Yeah, let’s be clear that being effeminate is not the same as being gay, so we’re talking about how people label things that are air quote “straight” how people label things that are air quote “gay.” 

C: Correct.

K: So for me, I don’t think that an effeminate man is a gay man. I’m saying for me, I don’t understand what’s supposed to be butch or femme, culturally, for men or for women in Japan. I don’t get it. So, for me, in the United States, I would be considered, now, to be dressing as what air quote would be considered “butch” because I wear the same thing everyday. I wear jeans, a tank top, and a button down shirt. Every single day. And tennis shoes. And I don’t wear makeup, and my hair is in a bun. For some cultures, that would be considered butch, although I consider myself femme. And that has more to do with – nnn not sexual preferences – because I’m not a lazy bottom. And I shouldn’t say all femmes are lazy bottoms. Oohh, bias came out on that right?

C: Just let that

K: Yeah, right? Well, no, because people would just assume because when I was younger, I was hyper – what people would consider to be hyper-femme, super-femme. Which is so stupid to lame because I always was completely dolled up, and they just assumed that I was a lazy bottom. And I feel like you can be butch and a lazy bottom. 

C: Mhmm.

K: Being femme tells you nothing about what I prefer to do in the bedroom. 

C: Yes.

K: Like, my clothing and my attire tells nothing about what my sex is like. 

C: Right. So I think to the extent that it can, that’s just

K: To be clear, it wasn’t a bias. It was defensiveness. 

C: Okay.

K: I don’t think that femme women are naturally considered lazy, and I don’t think that bottoms are lazy. I think there can be lazy tops and lazy bottoms. I think there are some people who for what I think of enjoy lazy sex. And I don’t think lazy sex is a bad thing. I think if that’s your preference, I don’t think lazy sex should be demonized. 

C: Now, if you have a giant lazy Susan, and you have sex on that, is that lazy Susan sex?

K: It would be, yes.

C: Okay.

K: So some people enjoy lazy sex. I think we just need to stop- here’s just a rant for me. Something that just totally gets under my skin. I hate when people kink shame. And I hate when people label shame. So I don’t think that you can determine what lazy sex is for someone and whether that’s a positive or a negative thing. Because I have had what I would consider to be lazy sex, and it was a lot of fun. 

C: Mhm.

K: I’ve had it with you, in fact. Outing you as sometimes enjoying lazy sex.

C: Yup.

K: Sorry to out you like that. But what we consider to be lazy sex is for us.

C: Yeah. I’ll deal with being outed like that.

K: (laughs) I feel like we need to get out of people’s bedrooms, and we need to stop kink shaming. We need to stop identity shaming. We need to stop shame. Like, shame is just such a toxic, useless, and stupid emotion. And it’s stupid energy. There are things that I have shame about, and I’m working through it, because I think shame and guilt are just toxic, but I don’t have the energy to be shaming people based on what they do. And if they’re your sexual partner, don’t shame them. Talk to them.

C: Okay. So what I was saying earlier

K: What were you saying earlier? I went on a rant.

C: Yeah.

K: It wasn’t a digression, it was a rant.

C: Yeah. About gay coding. Is that, from the time I was a teenager until my early 20s,

K: Which is a form of shading.

C: Most people assumed that I was gay. Because

K: Even after we got married, people assumed you were gay.

C: Yes. Because if you listen to the podcast, you can know I have a lisp. But that’s due to dental work.

K: No. You – see, no. No. It’s the way you move. You don’t have a lisp.

C: I think I do.

K: You drive me bananas with that.

C: Okay. And the way I move is due to the pain.

K: The way you move is also due to autism.

C: Okay, yes. Pain and autism. So the way I move, people just make assumptions. What I’m saying is

K: You’re what classically would be called a dandy boy.

C: Yes. So what I’m saying – and you’re feeding exactly into what I wanted to say – is that we don’t know what that looks like here in Japan as foreigners because one of the biggest companies for men to get aesthetic work done is called Dandy House.

K: Yes. Which is why I said it. (laughs) Because you’re not a dandy boy so much anymore. I think the beard has – because you used to be very coifted, air quotes “coifted.”

C: Yeah, there’s no t in that. 

K: Say it then.

C: Coiffed. 

K: I liked coifted.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m going to continue saying coifted.

C: Coifted rhymes with wafted. 

K: It has nothing to do with that. So I’m hearing that it’s bothering you, and I’m just

C: It’s got the same relation between coifted and the spelling.

K: Uh, that’s going to be fun for you to transcribe.

(laughter)

K: Kisstopher and Chad overlapping conversation. 

C: Yes.

K: So I know I keep talking over you today. I’m sorry. I’m being rude.

C: No, that’s fine. I think on this topic, you should be talking over me because although I have been perceived as being gay, I’m not gay, so I’m not part of that community.

K: Yeah.

C: I’m sympathetic and supportive of the aims of that community. I’ll speak up for people in that community. I don’t tolerate, like… criticism of that community as a community. You can criticize people within that community for – for things they do, but… saying “the LGBTQ community this or that” I think you shouldn’t speak on that because it’s not a monolith. 

K: No it’s not.

C: Like all other communities.

K: Correct. So, for me, when I call you – when I say you used to be a dandy, or when I say – a lot of the stuff I say is, and I know I shouldn’t do it when I’m speaking publicly, but it’s within-group joking that I’ve done with my peeps and that I do with you. But it’s not appropriate to assign people sexual roles based on their physical appearance. I hope that’s the message everyone heard. Because that’s the message I’m trying to promote, is that you can not look at any one person and assume that they’re 31 flavors or assume that they’re vanilla. 

C: Right. 

K: And there is more than one type of vanilla, so I feel like we need to stop trying to determine what people’s sex lives are based on appearance. I think that that is disgusting and rude and foul and bigoted. I think it’s bigotry to look at somebody and think—at the very least, it’s biased.

C: Yeah, I would agree with that. I would say I hear a lot, like, “don’t assume that just because a man is strong and talks in a deep voice that he’s straight”, and I would go the other way and say

K: And don’t assume he’s a top. 

C: Mmm, good point, yeah. 

K: And don’t assume he’s a dom. 

C: No, I’ve heard a lot of disappointment from people I know on that regard, so.

K: What are you talking about? Who is coming to you and saying “wow, I thought so and so was going to be a dominant top, and it turns out they were a bottom, and I am just bitter about that”? Who is coming to you with these stories?

C: (laughs) Well, nobody lately. 

K: Who? When?

C: Before we were married.

K: Okay, one time.

C: No, more than once. When I was working at The WeLL, which was like 1997, 98. About half the people there were part of the LGTBQ community, and so conversation at work would be like that.

K: Oh, okay. So, now, expressing sexual disappointment because you made assumptions, that’s on you for assuming.

C: Okay.

K: Don’t assume.

C: Because you know what happens when you assume. 

K: What?

C: You’re often wrong.

K: Yeah. But, no, nobody’s making an ass out of me because they assume something.

C: (laughs)

K: So, I find that in Japan, I am self-identified – because I’m out, and I tell my clients, most of my clients, there’s a handful of clients that don’t listen to the podcast and don’t know that I’m part of the LGBTQIA+ community.

C: Don’t listen to the podcast, don’t pay attention to tweets, don’t pay attention to anything but the therapy website which does not contain a ton of information about you.

K: Right. And so, it’s really, really hard for me. My business is not- so, I don’t accept every client. And I would like to one day be in a place where I don’t accept clients who aren’t working to actively stop being biased against the community. I’m almost there, financially, but there is a financial reality for me, anyway, where I have to work with people who say bigoted things, and then I try and educate them about the community.

C: Right.

K: And so, for me, that’s a tough spot to be in. And in the United States, there was – the community was large enough that I could just not work with people who were biased and bigoted against various aspects of my identity. And I’m finding now that I’m not able to do that, and that’s been really hard for me because in the United States, I had a hard line. And that was – now, as I’m wondering – is it better… because, I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately: is it better to talk to people who have biased and bigoted – who have bigotry and biasm in their lexicon. I kind of go back and forth on should I cut these people from my life, or should I use it to educate them, and so once somebody expresses a bias, an active bias against it, I do identify to let them know that they are coming into contact with somebody who is pansexual and what that means. And I find that they always write it off because I’m married to you.

C: Yeah, I had somebody say to me a while ago “well, I mean I know that Kisstopher is bisexual, but now that you’re a straight couple” well, no but we’re not. You’re still pansexual. 

K: Yeah. I’m still pan. 

C: Yeah.

K: I still think boobies are the best thing ever, and that’s never going to change.

C: Shared interest.

K: (laughs) We both enjoy vagina. 

C: Yes. Yes we do.

K: And so, I feel like, you know, I don’t partake of everything I enjoy in the world all of the time. And we are, currently, in a monogamous relationship.

C: Well, I think it would be silly, because we are in a monogamous relationship, to worry about the fact that you find, you know, women and nonbinary people and agender people attractive.

K: Yeah.

C: Because if you were straight, you would still find men attractive. Why wouldn’t I be worried about all the men? How does it, you know, relate? I know some people feel like “well” I’ve been told they feel like they have to be having sex with multiple people t get their needs met because of their preferred gender – sorry, their gender preferences in terms of partner.

K: Yeah. 

C: And I think, “well, then don’t be monogamous.”

K: Yeah. Because for me, being pansexual – the reason I’m not demi-sexual is a lot of people want me to identify as demi-sexual, but no, I don’t have to know you to have sex with you. I love a good, casual, one-night stand where I don’t even know your name. Oh baby, in the day, that was my jam Not anymore because I know your name, and now I jokingly call myself Chad sexual because I get all my sex from, hello, Chad. 

C: Which makes me nervous

K: The Chad.

C: Okay, thank you.

K: The Chad.

C: Yes. Specific one.

K: Yes. (laughs) A very specific Chad. So for me, the reason why I identify as pansexual is I’m not attracted to gender, I’m attracted to people. 

C: Yeah.

K: And so… when we say – so I think it’s interesting that you don’t say trans. You say nonbinary. What was your thing? I also find trans

C: Men, women, nonbinary, and agender.

K: Yeah. And also trans folk.

C: Yeah, but trans folk, typically, I don’t know any exceptions personally but you may, view themselves as men, transmen, or women, transwomen, or nonbinary, trans nonbinary.

K: I do know that part – I know people in the trans community who really value trans being – the word trans being part of their identity.

C: Okay.

K: And so for me, I don’t care how anyone identifies, I like all humans sexually.

C: Yes.

K: I feel like that’s the easiest way to say it. And, really, all humans within what I find attractive. And sometimes, I have sex – not anymore because I find you physically attractive – but I used to have sex with people I didn’t find physically attractive. Just if I thought they might be interesting sexually. I was like “hmm, I wonder what it would be like to have sex with you’ and then I would have sex with them.

C: So like the sexual equivalent of eating durian fruit.

K: Eating what?

C: Eating durian fruit.

K: What is that?

C: That’s that really stinky fruit that’s supposed to taste good.

K: I have no idea what this fruit is. I’ve never heard of it.

C: Oh, okay. You should look it up. It’s got this really, really awful

K: Is it that vomit fruit?

C: Yeah.

K: because I’ve heard of something called vomit fruit.

C: Yeah, basically. It’s got this really, really awful smell, but some people just the taste of it they say is delicious.

K: See, no, I didn’t ever have sex with stinky people. Because I have a really sensitive nose. Like, I’m really sensitive to smell.

C: I wasn’t saying stinky people. I ‘m saying people that two of your senses disagree about. Your visual sense says “this person is not sexually attractive” but your intellectual sense says “that could be really interesting and fun.”

K: Oh okay, yeah. But nobody that I’ve felt was stinky – and stinky could be too much cologne, too much perfume – and some people have really, really great smelling body odor. Which is supposed to be one of the ways you can tell if someone’s in love with you, which I think is stupid because it has nothing to do with anything. Though I love your B.O.

C: Okay but

K: On most days. There are some days where I’m like “nnn, that’s not the right note.”

C: But if it’s supposed to be the basis for attraction, why are they called fearomones rather than loveamones?

K: I know that they are not called fearomones. You know that.

C: I don’t know that.

K: You do know that.

C: Educate me.

K: Pheromones.

C: Pheromones? That’s not fair. 

K: (laughs) I knew it. I knew it. And I shouldn’t be laughing.

C: But you are.

K: No, I’m not. I’m smiling deeply because I love you. I’m laughing in shame. 

(laughter)

C: Don’t laugh shame her, folks.

K: (laughs) That is so true. So, something that has bothered me is that – so, okay without going into specifics, over the years, I’ve had clients try and convince me that bisexuality is a mental illness. That chaps my hide. That hurts my beauties man. 

C: Yeah.

K: Roast my Wheaties. I meant roast my weenies. It bothers me because sexuality is not mental illness. Sexuality is sexuality even if I don’t agree with the sexuality. I’m going to say something really, really controversial. Pedophilia is not a mental illness. It is a type of sexuality. But because it harms children, and because children cannot consent, if you engage in pedophilia, you are a rapist, and you are wrong. You should suppress your sexuality or you should find someone who’s willing to “little,” which is somebody acting in a regressed or childish way.

C: an adult, yes.

K: Yes, an adult who can consent. Children cannot consent. So for me, sexuality is all about consent, and I know there is a type of sex that is consensual non-consent, and that is completely okay. We start with consent, and you set what the non-consent rules are, and then you do it. Pedophilia has nothing, I can not say this strong enough, nothing to do with LBGTQIA+. Nothing at all. These are two separate and distinct groups. Two separate and distinct types of sexuality. And so for me, I know it’s really controversial to say pedophilia is a type of sexuality, but pedophilia is the attraction to – is age-based attraction. I do not think you have to act on attraction. And so that goes back to me being pansexual. There are people I’m attracted to – I don’t act on attraction because I’m monogamous. I think there are rules to keep the world safe and rules to respect your partner and rules to respect yourself. And to me that goes to respecting children. 

And anyone who’s followed our twitter feed knows that I am a sexual assault survivor, and I am a survivor of pedophilia. And so for me, I feel very strongly that if you engage in pedophilia, you are damaging someone for the rest of their life. It’s not okay. They’re damaged for the rest of their life. And I can say that all of my gay sex didn’t damage me. All of my pan sex hasn’t damaged me. All of my consensual sex hasn’t damaged me. Pedophilia has damaged me. So, for me, that’s how I have this really clear understanding of what is damaging and what is not, sexually. And I have not known anyone in the community – I have never met anyone in the community that was a pedophile. Ever. None. So, I don’t think – I don’t care what your gender – once it’s pedophilia, once it’s attraction to children, I don’t care if you’re attracted to boys or girls. I don’t care what your gender are. That is pedophilia and that is wrong. It hurts children. It damages people for life.

C: I would agree. I’m also a survivor of that. 

K: Yeah.

C: Which I don’t talk about much, but I have said before. But, yeah. I think that it’s different when you’re talking about adults, and I think it’s also different when you’re talking about people on the verge of adulthood exploring their sexuality together.

K: Yeah.

C: and an adult taking advantage of somebody who is… a teenage age. So, I think that

K: Well, and pedophilia can happen in the teenage years, so I think it’s really important that, for me, two teenagers consenting to explore sexuality together, guys, wait for sex. I really- I think there are some ages that it’s too young. Like, because of my history at 9 years old, I was making out with other nine-year olds. And that’s way too young to be making out. Like, our son at 9 hadn’t been kissed, and I just see the beauty in him waiting. And I see just how much healthier his views on sex are with waiting. And I just, I don’t know. I feel like teenage years. But this is me saying my opinion. But I feel like waiting until you’re well in your teens.

C: Yeah, I would agree with that.

K: Yeah. Just for maturity reasons, and you know. And also because then you can have birth control and always wear a condom, practice safe sex, you know. HIV is still out there, AIDS and HIV is still out there. Herpes, still out there, gonorrhea: still out there. STDs are real, y’all.

C: Yes they are. 

K: Practice safe sex. And I also think PReP, like, if you’re going to – and I know a lot of people are like “I shouldn’t have to do prep” and this that and the other, but if you’re going to be sexually active, and you’re just going to have a lot of sex. If you want to engage in tons of sex, get on prep, man. Prep and condoms.

C: In the U.S. it’s still 20,000 dollars a year.

K: To be on prep?

C: Yeah. And

K: Are you shitting me?

C: No. And insurance may or may not cover that depending on what kind of insurance you have.

K: That’s disgusting. That’s disgusting. They should pass out prep like condoms, to me.

C: Mhm. 

K: I feel like it’s preventative care.

C: Yes.

K: Like, a smart move. Sorry if you can hear me rustling my blanket, but it’s super hot. I’m taking my blanket on and off. I’m having problems with temperature regulation today.

C: My poor honey.

K: Poor Kisstopher, she can’t regulate her temperature.

C: Send ice.

K: (laughs) 

C: Not immigration, we live in Japan, that’s a different thing. 

K: (laughs) We’re permanent residents. We’re legal.

C: I mean frozen water. 

K: So, something else that’s really important too me is the issue of trans bathrooms. Something really cool about Japan is Japan does have gender neutral bathrooms – not everywhere, but a lot of places. Like, my favorite tempura restaurant chain has- the, it’s interesting to me, a positive gender bias for me. They have a male / female bathroom and a female only bathroom. And I love that. 

C: Well and it makes sense. When we would go to the Raiders games, the men’s bathrooms were never as busy as the women’s.

K: Yeah.

C: Because of the difference in the typical anatomy. Men could just go in and pee in the trough next to, you know, twenty to thirty other men and skedaddle.

K: Yeah, shake it and go.

C: And then the women, it was the sit down toilets. So, every time that issue was studied

K: And so I appreciate the squat toilets in Japan are no joke. But we’ve talked about previously.

C: Yeah. But every time it’s been studied – and I’m a math person, so I’ve read some of these studies – they say

K: Have you?

C: Yes.

K: (laughs)

C: There should be more sit down toilets than there are urinals, and so if you are going to divide it up into men and women, you should have more bathrooms for women. I am a big fan of provide single stalls that you can’t peek through, you can’t look under, so that the issue is irrelevant. But you’re right, Japan does have a lot of gender-neutral bathrooms. A lot of establishments will have single-stall bathrooms, so the issue is moot. And a lot of train stations, the things have larger bathrooms that are for accessibility but also for families and that kind of thing. So

K: And I feel like the U.S. and the whole world needs to get over itself. Like… nongender based bathrooms are the way to go. And I think that people should be able to go into the bathroom whatever their identity says. That’s the bathroom they should use. And so, what I think people don’t know is that sexual assault happens in bathrooms now. It’s happening in bathrooms now. So, having that women’s symbol on the back of the bathroom is not keeping anybody safe.

C: It is not a forcefield.

K: It’s not, and I feel like barring trans folks from using a bathroom that matches their identity so that they have one less moment of dysphoria in their day is beautiful – it’s a beautiful thing. And to me, having – that’s just a basic human right. The ability to go to the bathroom and not experience dysphoria when you go to the bathroom. And also it is safer for folks who are trans to go into the bathroom which they identify as. In my mind, it’s safer because of the bias and bigotry and all of the harm and physical abuse that happen to trans folks, so I’m really pro-bathroom rights. 

C: Yeah, me too, and I think too one thing that happens when you stop policing which bathroom people go into, is it makes people who aren’t trans safer as well. There’s literally no downsides to me. In my mind. 

K: Yeah. Because if the line’s longer in one bathroom, go to the other.

C: Yeah.

K: I know that when I was younger, I would go in the men’s bathroom with no qualms. I was a very bold person, and now I’m like “wow that was not very safe or smart, Kisstopher.”

C: Mhm.

K: But I didn’t care, and I would have men curse me out and tell me “what are you doing, you shouldn’t be in here.” And I’m like “I have to pee.”

C: So what it made it not safe or smart?

K: Because of the bias of me being in that bathroom. And people being furious that I was in that bathroom like how day I go into their bathroom.

C: So feeling like they had the right to attack you.

K: Yes. Based on what bathroom I went into.

C: Yeah, so I don’t think that there is anything inherently more dangerous about men’s bathrooms except that, like, if men get “well, you’re in here, so now you’re fair game for whatever.”

K: Yeah.

C: that attitude is poisonous and should be

K: Which supports the argument of why trans women should be using the women’s bathroom, so that they don’t have to deal with that aggression because I can say from my own experience that men get hostile AF when you go into their bathroom and you’re female presenting. And I don’t care if you’re not female presenting. What society considers to be female presenting, if you identify as a woman, you should be able to use the woman’s bathroom. If you identify as a man, you should be able to use the men’s bathroom.

C: And I was just thinking about our friend who is cis female but a body builder.

K: Mhm.

C: Like, she – you know, I’m fat, but she could pick me up and bench press me pretty easily.

K: Yes, and she is what the world would consider to be male-presenting.

C: Right. But, she’s a female. She identifies as female. She’s cis female. Like, she should be able to go use the women’s bathroom if you’re going to split it up into men and women.

K: And gender is a social construct anyways. 

C: Yes. So, people – I was reading a thing from the WHO that said that

K: What’s the WHO?

C: The World Health Organization

K: Thank you.

C: That said that most people assume that they’re a 46xx or 46 xy person. Meaning they have 46 chromosome pairs, and their sex chromosomes are xx or xy.

K: Oh okay I had no idea what you were on about. I thought you were talking about sizes, and I’m like “a 46 xx, that’s big.” 

C: (laughs)

K: That’s like why are- most people are not that big. And then I was thinking “maybe he’s going to make a point about big people.”

C: No. No, that’s a different thing. But it’s saying that

K: (laughs) That’s a different something?

C: Yeah, that’s a different something. It’s saying that most people assume that they’re one of these things, but it said several per thousand people are not either one. And only some of those people present as intersex. So only some of those people have ambiguous genitalia or no characteristics. So it’s said that there are quite a few men who are 46x, they don’t have a y chromosome. But their body develops in a masculine way. That there are women who are 46xy. That is if you tested their genetics, like, looking for Barr bodies and all that kind of thing, it would say “it’s a man.” But their body developed as a woman because sex chromosomes are more complicated than we think. And so while the majority of people are…. Genotypically female or male, and their body matches it, even if we just want to say “but science” because that’s the argument I hear most. That trans people are against science because biology assigned you one or the other.

K: Which is bigoted bullshit.

C: It is, but science doesn’t support it either. So you can’t leave out a sizable part of the population and say “no no we’re only counting the people who are 46xx or 46xy”

K: So dropping the science on why gender is a social construct.

C: Thank you, and most people don’t know.

K: Yeah, most people don’t know the science behind gender.

C: And most people don’t know their own gender for sure. 

K: Mmm. That’s a good one. Like, if we’re really going hard on this is what defines gender, and science supports gender, then you have to get like a specific gender test done. You have to get a scientific test done.

C: Yeah. Exactly. You have to get a genetic test done. 

K: And that’s eugenics. That leads to eugenics.

C: Yeah. So, I don’t know for sure that I’m 46xy.

K: Yeah, I identify as a cis gendered woman, but

C: Yeah, I identify as a cis gendered man, but I don’t know if I’m 46xy. I know you identify as a cis gendered woman, and you’ve given birth, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you’re 46xx.

K: Correct. So, our point is – so, I want everybody to know that I am a cis gendered woman and that these are only my opinions, that I am only one member of the LGBTQIA+ community. And so my views on pansexuality, and my views on what it means to be trans, and all of that are seen through my lens, and I want to be really clear what my lens is. And I hope that all of the trans folks who hear this know that I am coming from a place of love, and I am aware that I may have said something that was ignorant, and I may have inadvertently hurt someone, and if I did, I’m sorry. And please let me know. Let me know and educate me, but please come with love because know that I am coming with love, and I’m trying to support ta movement, and I’m trying to get rights for trans children because I do believe that children do know how they identify. 

And I do think – for me, I remember being very young, feeling like a little girl. I remember – my earliest memories are feeling like a girl. Believing I was a girl. And I feel very fortunate and very lucky that the cards just played out that the rest of the world accepted that from me, and that’s my point. The rest of the world, based on the way my genitalia was formed, that’s it. Just based on my genitalia allowed me to say my own truth, and I think we need to start letting kids say their truth, and letting kids live their truth. And letting kids go to the bathroom as their truth. I think this argument that a five-year old trans child should have to go to some particular restroom based on their particular – what adults are assuming their genitalia to be because they haven’t looked at these kids’ genitalia, at least I hope they haven’t. Based on that, being discriminated against, I think is wrong, and it breaks my heart to hear these stories of kids that are not able to go to the bathroom during the school day. Or have a special bathroom that sometimes that bathroom gets stalked, and that is such a heated debate because I don’t see what the big deal is. 

I don’t see what would happen to – because we have a son. I don’t think if a trans boy – if he went to kindergarten and there was a trans boy in his kindergarten class, I would completely support them being able to use the boys’ bathroom. And if we had had a daughter, and there was a trans girl in her class, I would completely support that trans child being gable to use the bathroom because I’m like are you kidding me now that we’re worried about what five, six, and seven year olds are doing in the bathroom. 

C: Yeah. And maybe I’m just better at not looking than other people, but I don’t think that I’ve ever seen anybody else’s genitalia in a toileting situation.

K: Yeah, I haven’t. I’ll admit, I have had sex in bathrooms, but that was different

C: That’s why I didn’t say in a bathroom

K: But even then. Even then, I didn’t actually see their genitalia.

C: Mmm. Interesting.

K: (laughs)

C: That’s why I was saying in a toileting situation because when I was in jr. high they had locker room communal showers, so that was different. I’m not a big fan of communal showers, I think you should have separate shower stalls for everybody.

K: Yeah, I do too.

C: So, but you know… I agree. So, I think that goes back to your point about do we try to convince bigots, or do we just shut them out, and I think if somebody is… ignorant and you feel like you have the time and the energy, then maybe trying to educate them is good, but I don’t think that anybody owes their time to educate.

K: Oh, here’s something about Japan LGBTQIA+ that chaps my hide. Something that does need to change politically, something that maybe I should start marching again. Trans rights in Japan. In Japan, before you can change your gender on your passport, you have to be sterilized. And that is so offensive to me. 

C: Yes. I agree.

K: That is disgusting, and I am completely against the sterilization of trans folks, it’s heartbreaking. It upsets me.

C: I agree. The fact that it matches what many other countries do is not an excuse. 

K: Yeah. It’s completely wrong. I don’t think that anyone should be sterilized to have their passport match their identity. And so, in Japan, you can identify, but you can not have it changed on any of your paperwork until you’re sterilized. So that’s something that’s heartbreaking for me. That’s something that Japan really gets wrong. Because sterilization is wrong, and being a woman of color, I know for many, many years – and being someone who’s mixed race – I know for many, many years it was common practice to sterilize mixed race individuals so that we wouldn’t produce other mix race children, and that there has been sterilization of women of color historically to reduce minority populations. 

C: I know California just settled a case of that that happened in 2006. So it’s not some distant historical relic.

K: Yeah, so for me sterilization hits a nerve that is really raw and sensitive, but even if it wasn’t part of my own history, I think sterilizing people is disgusting.

C: Yeah. Unless they want it.

K: Yeah, unless they want to be sterilized. Then, you know, get st- but that’s different than sterilizing people because you’ve been sterilized by choice. You have a vasectomy. 

C: Yes.

K: And so I don’t view that as you were sterilized. I view that you got a vasectomy, and that’s very different. So, I believe that trans folks are just folks, and that they should have all the rights that cis gendered folks have. And I think LGBTQIA+ folks are just folks. And they should have all the rights that heterosexual folks have. Because I think all of the rights are human rights. The right to get married, to me, or not get married. It should be a personal choice that everybody gets to make, and I think the right to have children or not have children should be a personal choice and personal human right that everybody gets to make. And going to the bathroom, geez Louise, can we just let folks go to the bathroom?

C: Mhmm.

K: You know I have a thing about the bathroom. So I’m like completely toilet obsessed because I have frequent urination because of some surgeries I’ve had – I have a super sensitive bladder. So, for me, I just imagine: what would it be like to never be able to go into a bathroom of my choosing? Because in Japan, I know all of the areas that have squat toilets and western toilets, and I just think of it being the equivalent of having to use a squat toilet for the rest of my life. Having to be physically uncomfortable every time I need to urinate. I just couldn’t do it. It would be so hard. It would limit how I live life. It would limit where I could go and how long I could be out and all of those things, and having to get up in the morning and have that on your head on top of everything else you deal with on a daily basis is just ludicrous to me.

C: Or just having somebody scream “you don’t belong” every time you headed into a bathroom. 

K: Yeah, it’s like… who needs that?

C: Nobody needs that.

K: Nobody got time for that.

C: Nope.

K: Like, knock it off. Grow up. Be an adult. (laughs) It’s really how I feel about it. I feel like “grow up.” Go get your life. Stop worrying about what everybody’s doing and start living your life. You know. People are people. Let’s all embrace our humanity kind of thing. So, today we didn’t really digress that much.

C: No, no. I think it helps to have a pretty broad topic.

K: Yeah, it did. And I think we did start off with kind of a digression, but I can’t remember what that is.

C: Yeah, that was your fault, and I don’t remember what it was either.

K: That was what?

C: That was your fault. I don’t remember what it was. Oh, the number of islands in Japan.

K: Oh, yeah. I really wonder. Are there – I’m going to, you know what, we don’t google on this show, but I think I am going to google and find out. How many islands is Japan made up from? And again, if we’ve gotten anything wrong, and we’ve talked about something that you identify as, please send us a loving correction. And I say please correct with love because I am talking form a place of love, and so on that note… love yourself. Love everybody in your life. Live a life filled with love. Let go of bigotry. Evolve.

C: Yup.

K: That’s it. That’s us. (laughs)

C: We’ll talk to you next week.

K: Talk to you next week. Bye.

C: Bye-bye.