K:

So lately, I’ve been thinking about what I like and dislike about recording a podcast with your spouse. So Chad and I wrote down six things that we like and six things that we dislike in Chad and Kisstopher style, the dislikes aren’t going to be heavy. We’re not going to be throwing hate at each other. But there are some challenges with recording with your spouse, but there are also some benefits. So Chad wrote his list, Chad wrote their list, and then I wrote my list and we do not know what’s on each other’s lists.

C:

No we don’t. But I noticed that you said things that are difficult about recording with your spouse.

K:

That I said what?

C:

That you have been thinking about how difficult it is to record with your spouse.

K:

Yes.

C:

So that feels very personal.

K:

Yeah. Oh, it’s going to get personal.

C:

Okay.

K:

It’s going to be so personal. This is a very personal podcast. I want to start off with something positive. Something that I really like about it is time spent talking with you. And all of our Musick Notes know that we feel like we’ve been having this 22 year conversation that started from me screaming across the courtyard, “Hey, you. Come here.” And to my delight, you came over.

C:

Yeah. And you were like, “Get out of my dreams and into my car.” And I was like, “I have my own car. Thank you.”

K:

Okay, wait, I need to add something to my dislikes. I’m so rude. That was so rude. That was so incredibly rude. I own that, that was rude.

C:

It’s already on mine, that you don’t…

K:

Oh, no. Chad’s list is getting longer. So just for all of you who may have caught the beginning that I switched it from he to them, Chad says it’s okay for me to use the he/him pronouns, even though Chad is non-binary. And for me, I always challenge myself to evolve. And this is an area I want to evolve in, because I do just think of Chad as Chad. But for many years, Chad was in denial about being non-binary and really was very adamant that I use he/him, and didn’t like the fact that I didn’t use gender pronouns. But I think that was more to do with the fact that my last partner was a male-presenting female who is not trans. And I would never use any pronouns when talking about them. And Chad, I think, wanted that differentiation. Is that where it came from?

C:

No, it came from, I still feel like I am in a man’s body. I just have such severe dissociation that it’s like, I feel disconnected from it, which is probably a topic for an entirely different podcast. But I don’t feel like I don’t have a man’s body. I just feel like it’s not mine. I’m a passenger in this thing I don’t like.

K:

For me, I think it’d be really cool if I got to a place where I wasn’t using pronouns when talking about you, because for the majority of my romantic life, I haven’t used pronouns. Well, no now you’re the majority of my romantic life.

C:

Thank you, yes.

K:

So I guess now for the majority, I have to unlearn something that prior to you, I didn’t do. And so I’m learning something that you wanted me to do.

C:

Yes.

K:

The reason I mention it every podcast is because I want to be the change I want to see in the world. And I want people, when people in your life update their identity, update you on who they are and what their lived experiences, to do the work, to update it, and to let the Musick Notes in our process on updating.

C:

Yes. I think that’s good.

K:

What’s the number one thing, what’s the first thing on your list that you like about recording a podcast with me?

C:

Okay, I’m not going to alter, even though I should, just to be like all lovey-dovey with yours. Because the first thing that I like recording about with you is no lag.

K:

What do you mean no lag?

C:

I mean, there’s no lag while I wait for your response over the network.

K:

That is an awesome one. I wish I had thought of that. That is such a good one.

C:

Thank you. Because I spend like 20 hours or more per week in meetings online.

K:

Yes.

C:

So I’m always conscious of lag. Even if it’s only one or two seconds, it greatly affects the conversation. Having a conversation with you, doing the podcast with you, there’s no lag. And I love that.

K:

Oh, that’s nice. Yeah, there is no lag. That’s a good one. I did think about some of the technical aspects, but I don’t think they made my like list.

C:

Yeah.

K:

I should’ve put on there… oh, no. That should be on my dislike list.

C:

Yeah, yeah.

K:

You don’t fill the silence when I’m drinking water.

C:

Okay. That is not what I was thinking you were going to say. By your laugh, you know what I thought you were going to say.

K:

No, what were you going to say? What’d you think I was going to say?

C:

I thought you were going to say something about how I’m wearing pajamas, that it’s just an unfairness to the world.

K:

Yeah. Well I did, I think about a month ago, take a poll on Twitter that was very official, and the whole world agrees that your legs should be bare.

C:

Yes.

K:

The whole entire Twitterverse, at least.

C:

Yes.

K:

Agrees that you’re depriving the world of those thick calves, those thick, beautiful, hairy calves, gorgeous knees, thick ankles, and the tops of your feet are very beautiful.

C:

Thank you. Thank you for clarifying.

K:

For being so specific.

C:

Exactly.

K:

Okay. Dislike, and I don’t know if we have the same number one dislike, but mine is scheduling. You are so difficult to schedule with. I like to record at least a few weeks in advance, and you would love it if we would record it on… I feel like you would love it if we would record it the Wednesday before it went out.

C:

Oh, that would be great.

K:

Yeah, and that’s like, we have to get it transcribed.

C:

Until it wasn’t. Yeah.

K:

Yeah. Oh my gosh. We have to get it transcribed. And you think that your life and your work life is so predictable, but you don’t know. Like you’ll tell me, “Oh, my day is clear of meetings today and it’s going to be a light meeting and I’m going to love talking tonight.”

C:

Yeah. I don’t know. I was supposed to work until 4:00 today, which is my cutoff time at this time of year. And I was working until 6:00. So I don’t know.

K:

Yes. You have no clue. And you specifically said, “Oh, I have a light morning, but a busy afternoon, but it’s not too busy.”

C:

Right.

K:

So what’s number one on your dislike list?

C:

Okay. Well scheduling is on my list. So I’m going to switch that around.

K:

No, I want you to do it in order.

C:

Okay. The number one on my dislike list-

K:

How bossy Kisstopher is.

C:

Not quite.

K:

Okay.

C:

You are not in awe of me.

K:

That is so not true.

C:

On the podcast?

K:

I am in complete awe of you. It doesn’t come through?

C:

Of my nerve? Is that what you’re in awe of?

K:

No, like it doesn’t come through, how in awe of you I am?

C:

No, it doesn’t.

K:

Is it that? Musick Notes, help me out here. Hit us up on Twitter or on the Patreon if you’re one of our lovely Patreon’s who we completely appreciate, and our Patreon is The Musicks in Japan.

C:

To be clear, I mean all like awe like awesome. Not like, Aw. Because I feel like you are often. Aw of me.

K:

Yeah. Well you do get that on your bad jokes, but I think how much I respect and admire you, that type of all comes through on the podcast.

C:

No. Respect and admiration are different.

K:

You mean amazed?

C:

No. I mean, awe.

K:

Okay.

C:

Like, I didn’t know. There was a deity until I met you.

K:

Okay. Do you feel like in real life, I’m in awe of you?

C:

No I don’t.

K:

So this is a general complaint?

C:

This is a general complaint. Yes.

K:

Okay, so you just want to register a public, general complaint that I’m not in awe of you.

C:

Yes.

K:

Okay. But I call you awesome.

C:

You do so I’ve got some odd because I’m awesome.

K:

Yeah.

C:

You don’t call me alot.

K:

Because we let the alot go free.

C:

Yeah, we do set the alots free.

K:

If you spell a lot A-L-O-T, that’s alot and we beseech thee let the alots go free because it should be A space L-O-T. And that’s a joke because when I met Chad, I spelled it as alot. And now I remember to put the space because I want to set the alots free. And the only way you can do that as a space between the A and L.

C:

This is true.

K:

So that’s one thing I’m an art of when your spelling tricks work. Because most of them don’t.

C:

I don’t think surprise. I don’t think sheer and utter surprise is the same thing as awe.

K:

I’m in awe of your perseverance that you keep doing it.

C:

Yeah. And when I was in third grade, I went to fourth grade for half the day everyday. And I took my spelling tests in fourth grade. One of the words was sincerely, and I memorized it by telling myself it’s sin and then celery. But you switched the R and the L. I still am not forgiving myself for writing sin celery, even though I know it should have been sincerely because I forgot to switch the R and the L.

K:

And see there’s a lesson for everyone to be learned there, do not listen to Chad’s spelling tips. They’re too convoluted. That is so convoluted.

C:

They really are. Yeah.

K:

So I’m in awe of you and you can do a simple one. I’m like, dang, Chad could do a simple spelling tip? And then those stack and they work like set the alots free. That’s hilarious. I’m thinking of like little alots running around bumping into walls. So that was-

C:

Yeah. That was number one. I think I should get to go first this time.

K:

For likes.

C:

Yeah. For likes.

K:

Okay. So what’s the number two for likes?

C:

That I learn new things.

K:

No way.

C:

Yes.

K:

No way. Number two are mine is learning mean things about Chad.

C:

See, I’m glad I went first because now it’s clear you are copying me.

K:

You are so petty. You are so Polly Petty on that. Okay. Go first. What new things have you learned about me on the podcast?

C:

Well, I don’t know, because I incorporate them immediately into my things I have known forever.

K:

Yeah, you do.

C:

So you know this about me that with my memory, like I have very bad temporality around it. I don’t remember when I learned things.

K:

Correct.

C:

So things that happen over and over, it’s tricky. Like the simplest example is a door. I can’t remember where the doors are open or closed if I’ve seen them both ways.

K:

Correct.

C:

So if something is a fact that always stays a fact, my memory is good. And if something is sometimes a fact and sometimes not, my memory is bad.

K:

Which means Chad never closes the cupboard doors.

C:

And sometimes I’m surprised to see them open and I think I’m going to bang my head on that. I’ve already got a divot in my skull from doing it really hard once when we’re in California.

K:

Yes. And I’m too short and the way I missed through the kitchen. I don’t move to that side. And you, because you sway back and forth, when you move, because you kind of walk like a metronome.

C:

Yeah. I kind of stagger. Okay.

K:

It doesn’t look like a stagger because it looks very well timed. It’s sort of like a dance. I think it’s really beautiful. The way that you move.

C:

Thank you. Yeah. It’s kind of like controlled falling. I rarely fall, but I often stumble,

K:

I don’t think of you… excuse me. I don’t think of you as stumbly.

C:

Okay.

K:

I know you think of yourself as awkward and klutzy and clumsy and all of that because of how much you injure yourself.

C:

Yeah.

K:

And I don’t, I think that if I move things and don’t tell you that you will bump trip or fall. So like, if there’s garbage on the floor, so even if there’s this, like… So for example, I spilled some water and there’s a thing on the floor and I haven’t taken it off the floor yet because I’m letting it soak it all up. And after the podcast, I’ll take it off the floor. And I have to tell Chad, I took it off the floor so that Chad will know it’s no longer there. And then for the first three or four times, Chad goes into the kitchen, I’ll have to say that paper’s not on the floor anymore.

C:

Yeah or I’ll keep avoiding it.

K:

Yeah. And you might slip on the plastic bags. The plastic bags are our garbage bags.

C:

This is true. Yeah.

K:

So I’ve learned a lot of new things about you in terms of your history, things that just never crossed my mind to ask you about your past. Not like shady twisted things, but just like weird random things.

C:

I think that’s something that happened when we met is that neither one of us was like, “Okay, I think I like you. So I need to go through all of your past and decide if I don’t,”

K:

Yeah no, we don’t do that.

C:

Yeah. We didn’t have that kind of like let’s hash out all of our past.

K:

So something I’ve noticed for people who come from really abusive backgrounds, not all people, but a lot of people who have come from really abusive backgrounds, we tend to front load, this is my baggage, this is my damage. And I know with like some really great friends that we’ve met on Twitter when we DM with them, they’re like, “This is the bad that’s happened to.” And I’m really vocal on Twitter about my past and really open about it. And people are really shocked by that, but it tends to lead them… And in my life I’ve always been like, “Hey, this is the ban that’s in my history,” because I’ve never wanted anyone to be able to weaponize it. And I’ve never felt ashamed and I’ve never felt like a victim. I’ve always felt like a survivor. And so for me, it’s like, this is what I’ve survived. And you kind of came with the same energy I felt.

C:

Yeah, definitely did. I dead mom-ed you within the first day.

K:

Yeah. And we’ve talked about that on the podcast. How I very sensitively burst into laughter and said, “You’re going to dead mom me? Really?” I asked you, “Are you dead mom-ing me?” because you wanted something. And you’re like, “My mom died of cancer when I was 14.” And I was like, “Really?”

C:

I was 13, thank you.

K:

I keep getting that year wrong too.

C:

I turned 14 like a month later. I think that’s why you get it wrong.

K:

Yeah. So, okay. So those are likes. Do you want to go first for the next dislike?

C:

Yeah, I think so. And then let’s switch back to you first. Okay. So my next dislike is kind of the opposite, which is my stories are already known, but you say you learn new things. So I feel like I tell the same stories over and over.

K:

What do you mean? We change the topic every week.

C:

I mean, I feel like I tell the same stories over and over.

K:

So even though we’re changing topics, you just muscle in the same story?

C:

Yeah. I feel like that’s the kind of conversation list that I am.

K:

Is that you repeat yourself?

C:

Is that I’m like, okay, I know we’re talking about this, but I have a very clever way to bring it back around to the thing that I actually want to talk about.

K:

So that’s some internalized bad propaganda about autistic people that I don’t like, that you’ve internalized. And in over 22 years, I’ve not been able to convince you otherwise. So one of the things that I really, really hate that is out there about autistic people is that they can only talk about their interests and they will never talk about anything that’s interesting to you. And they always tell the same stories. And I’m just going to say that is bullshit. That is complete bullshit. If you’re autistic and someone is saying that to you, they are gaslighting you. And they are an asshole. Because I’ve been married, we’ve been together over 22 years and I’ve worked with the autistic population for, gosh, I don’t even know how long now, older than my son, who’s 27. And I have found that every single autistic person I’ve ever worked with has always been interested in me.

C:

Oh, absolutely. I’m not saying that they’re just stories about me. I feel like I know a lot of things that interest you, so I looked them up to learn more about them so that I can tell you things that would interest you.

K:

So then wouldn’t you be building on past knowledge?

C:

Yeah. But I feel like sometimes I, I don’t have anything new when I come to the podcast. Like, I’m just telling you things that… and I don’t worry so much about telling you things twice because you never tell me, “You don’t have to tell me twice.” You’ve never said that to me.

K:

I never have. It’s a phrase that you’ve said a lot that no one has ever said to you. You’re just waiting for your moment for that phrase.

C:

It’s confusing because does that mean, I do have to tell people things twice? I think it does.

K:

Like other people?

C:

Yeah. But I feel like specifically that on the podcast, I will start telling a story and I feel like I’ve told this story before.

K:

This might explain my number two dislike and that as I feel like I talked too much. I don’t feel like it’s a 50/50 exchange. I feel like I say more words. And our transcriptionist confirms that sometimes it’s a 70/30, where I’m talking 70% of the time and you’re talking 30% of the time. And there are times, and this goes with me, scheduling the podcast when you’re not in the mood to do it.

C:

Yeah.

K:

And saying, “No, we have to record now.” Because we have to record it at the latest on Sunday, the Sunday before it comes out, because of has to go to the transcriptionist. And then it has to go to the proofreader because the transcriptionist and the proofreader are two different people. And the proofreader proofreads it, gets the art from the artist and then schedules it.

C:

Right.

K:

So me, you transcriptionist proofreader, scheduler and artists. Five people are working on this podcast and you’re like, “I don’t feel like doing it.” And I’m like, “It’s Sunday, if you don’t get it to them, if you don’t get it to the transcript today,” because in a different country and time zone than us, we have an obligation to get it to them by Sunday.

C:

Yeah.

K:

And you’re like, “Nah, they could do it.” And I’m like, “No, they can’t. It take some two or three days to schedule it.” So that’s kind of scheduling and talking. I feel like sometimes just like, “Well it’s on you. You want it to record today.”

C:

And I feel like you’ve got the kind of English teacher/therapist, modality of speech where the other person should do most of the speech.

K:

Yes.

C:

So I think you’re like, “Let’s get this 30/70 going,” with me saying 30 and you saying 70.

K:

No, I’m trying get 50/50.

C:

Yeah. I think you’d be happy with 50/50. But would I be?

K:

Obviously not. Obviously not.

C:

I’m a man of fewer words.

K:

I don’t have smart on the list, because we only did six.

C:

Right.

K:

So my third thing that I like, I just did and I completely forgot it was my third thing. We’re actually reading from a list. I hope you all are proud of us. We actually prepared today.

C:

We prepared. Yes.

K:

Yeah. We actually prepared. So we went hard. We wrote 12 things down.

C:

Each.

K:

Well we typed 12 things. Yeah, each. That’s 24 things and we had to think about them.

C:

That’s one for every day before Christmas, you could make an advent calendar out of the things.

K:

Yes you could. If this was December 1st, but nevermind that it’s September, whatever. So anyways, my third thing that I love is laughing with you. I love how much you make me laugh on the podcast. So I’m saying yes, publicly and for the record that I find you funny.

C:

Thank you.

K:

That I think you’re amusing and that you make me laugh.

C:

Thank you.

K:

I’ve declared it.

C:

It’s about time.

K:

Yeah. Are you accepting, like here’s your verbal award.

C:

I’m going to mark this day in history.

K:

Yeah, you should. Because you’re funny and everybody knows that your sense of humor is one of the first things that attracted me to you.

C:

Yes, they do.

K:

What’s your number three?

C:

My number three is my sense of humor is understood.

K:

No, seriously what’s your number three?

C:

No seriously that’s my number three. Do you want to look?

K:

No I trust you. Oh my gosh. We were so made for each other.

C:

My number three is that you know I’m funny.

K:

That is too much. That is too Chad. Oh my gosh. That is too Chad. We wrote these in separate rooms to make sure we did not see what each other was writing. We did it top secret. Just for moments like this, that is so bizarre. This shows you chat is obsessed with being funny.

C:

I really am.

K:

Yeah, you are. Why are you obsessed with being funny? I’ll be like, “So how’d your meeting? How did your meetings go today?”

K:

“Oh, this person like my puns and this person laughed at this joke. Oh, and this was the really great job. I got a ton of…” that tells me nothing about how the meetings went.

C:

Yeah.

K:

So now when I ask you about your work meetings, I just say, “How did they praise you? Who praised you and how did they do it?” I ask you, “Were you funny today?” And I stopped asking you were funny today because I bummed you out for like the whole evening one day.

C:

Because I hadn’t been funny.

K:

Yeah. And you hadn’t realized you hadn’t been funny until I asked you.

C:

I have one person at work who I’m definitely funny with, like when we meet, we spend 10 minutes being funny before we get onto business.

K:

Yes. And if you’re not funny and you realize that you haven’t made anyone laugh in a day, why are you even here? Because you get that sad.

C:

Okay. So today I was in a meeting of 12 people and the meeting hadn’t quite started yet because we were waiting for a couple more people because big meeting. And somebody said something about matrices and they found them difficult if there was more than one. And I said, “Oh, when they’re multidimensional, do you feel tenser?”

K:

That just went over my head. And I would imagine 80% of our listeners.

C:

Absolutely. So I was going to explain it. The tech manager started laughing. He pointed at me on the screen because a multi-dimensional matrix is called a tensor. That was the joke.

K:

Yeah.

C:

Can I remind you that? My number three was my sense of humor is that understood?

K:

Yeah. I can remember that. And I think the fact that I think your number three should have been that you only get honest laughs from me. I don’t give you pity laughs, sympathy laughs, or you need a laugh-

C:

Just wait for the dislike coming up. Okay.

K:

My Number three, despite and less of a serious dislike. I really don’t like it. No rehearsal time.

C:

Yeah.

K:

Because here’s something Chad likes to do. I said, I tell Chad… This is our preparation. I said, babe, can you get the stuff to record? And you say yes. And I can say today, we’re going to talk about X, Y, Z. Like when we go the Olympics and today we’re going to talk about the Olympics. Do you have 40 minutes of things to say about the Olympics? Chad says, “Yes I do.” Then when we get to talking about the Olympics, I literally do like the tug of rope sign to him, hand over hand to them-

C:

What I didn’t realize about the Olympics is how good I would be talking about it. Like how short my completion time would be.

K:

No, no. Because I’m specific. Do you have 40 minutes of things to say about the Olympics?

C:

I think the rehearsal, and you and I talked about this before, the rehearsal is really hard for me because if we rehearsed, then I start getting just a wicked sense of deja vu while we’re talking. And sometimes I’m just having deja vu because I’ve actually done things before. And other times it’s like a sign that things are going bad for me physically.

K:

Yeah that you’re having seizures.

C:

Yeah.

K:

So that’s how we don’t rehearse because I’m an ogre.

C:

No, no you accommodate that because we tried our first few episodes with rehearsing and with having kind of a general script of-

K:

They weren’t bad.

C:

Yeah.

K:

We had to stop each time we rehearsed. And so we get one shot at this and like, if I don’t like the podcast, another reason why we record early, this is probably on your dislike list.

C:

It is not.

K:

We can be 30 minutes and if something is said in the podcast, I don’t like, I will shut the empire by guests down and scrap it. I’d be like, “Nope, I don’t like that.” Yeah. There’s that. So what’s on your dislikes list.

C:

Okay. We’re on number three.

K:

Yeah. We’re on number three.

C:

Not much external perspective because we pretty much every experience together.

K:

Yeah. That does bother you. You always complain that we don’t do enough.

C:

But I don’t want to do anymore. Like we do as much as I want it to. But then that means that we don’t have like, “Oh the last time that I was over in Austria. Here’s what I did,” that we could talk about. Because-

K:

Then why do you tell me that I need to plan stuff for us to do for the podcast so that we’ll have more to talk about for the podcast, if you don’t think that we should do more?

C:

I don’t know. It’s been hard. I think the truth is I feel like I should want to do things, but I’m very comfortable at home.

K:

Yeah. And everybody knows what’s going down still. The topic that shall not be named. So it’s your turn to go first. What’s the fourth thing on your likes.

C:

Okay. We haven’t printed anything in like a month. So the paper’s all stripey. So I’m having to… Oh, okay. Yeah. That’s what I remember. You never get jealous about my very hot cohost.

K:

What do you mean?

C:

I mean, my cohost is super, super hot.

K:

That’s very sweet.

C:

And you never get jealous about it.

K:

So that’s painting me as that I’m jealous of the people you work with.

C:

No, you’re not jealous of anybody. And that’s one of my thing. So this is a segue to say, I like doing the podcast with you. You’re not jealous about anybody.

K:

Yeah. I don’t know what any of the women you work with look like, and you work with a lot of women and you do a lot of one-on-one time and you do a lot of very intimate mentoring of a non-sexual nature, but it’s intimate. Like one-on-one mentoring.

C:

Yeah. I don’t think I’ve ever sexually mentored anybody.

K:

Yeah, I know. But some people, when they hear the word intimate, they assume other than private, one-on-one. Where you’re talking about their personal history and their personal lives and how to transition their mindsets.

C:

Yeah. Their hopes, their dreams kind of thing. Yeah.

K:

It’s intimate, because it’s very personal. They wouldn’t want the world to know what y’all are talking about. They’d want it to stay between the two of them.

C:

Well, my team is half men and half women, and I mentor everybody on my team because that’s part of my role.

K:

Yeah. But you also mentor a lot of other people in the company and the reason that I’m not jealous of anyone is I don’t believe that jealousy prevents cheating. I don’t believe that hypervigilant prevents cheating and I have a horrible, horrible story for why I don’t. I’m going to tell it anyways.

C:

Okay.

K:

As a therapist, I heard the most horrific things from people and the most just things that would make me just think, “Wow.” And I had a client who was out to dinner with their family, went to the bathroom and had sex with their mistress and then went back to dinner with their family. And that was just a wow moment. And they’re asking me, do I think they’re a sex addict. And so at the beginning as like, they were like, “I have nymphomania. I think I’m a sex addict.” And I was just like, the stuff they’re saying to me was pretty tame.

K:

And I thought they were kind of get the label sex addict because they were cheating and they had been caught cheating and they did the bathroom incident after having been caught cheating. And I was like, “Okay, I think you do have a sex addiction at this point.” That was the tipping point for me. Because the stuff they were saying before, just sounded like run of the mill-

C:

Infidelity.

K:

Yeah. And so I believe that some people are better served being poly, being polyamorous. And at the end of the day, that’s what this person decided is that they were better off being polyamorous. And we worked through the parts of it that veered from what’s a healthy high sex drive versus using sex for emotional gratification. And that’s the difference and that’s a complete digression.

K:

And so for me, when I heard that, I was like, okay, so you have to go to the bathroom with someone to keep them from cheating. And like what quality of life? What a poor quality of life to have. So yeah. That’s why I’m not jealous. Waste of energy. My number four is seeing the social side of you. I feel like when we’re talking, just us, you have a very different personality versus when you’re talking in public. And this is your public persona and I enjoy seeing your public persona, especially now because we haven’t gone anywhere in public. We don’t get to socialize. So this feels like socializing with you because we’re socializing. We’re talking to each other, but I feel like we’re also talking with our Musick Notes.

C:

I guess it kind of does. And I like socializing. I know that that’s not what I’m supposed to say as an autistic person, but I’m very much-

K:

It’s exactly what you’re supposed to say if it’s your truth.

C:

Yes. The oppressors. The oppressors don’t want me to say that. They want the idea of you must be an introvert because you’re autistic and I’m like, “No, no.” Okay. But you’re a mathematician. You must be an introvert. I’m like, “Have you met many mathematicians? Because most of them are so outgoing.”

K:

Oh my gosh. And I think what people don’t realize, what I’ve come to learn is that autistic people are really honest in terms of whether or not they like you. If they don’t like you, they won’t talk to you.

C:

That doesn’t make them an introvert, they just don’t like you.

K:

Yeah. They don’t see the point of talking to you. And I tried to explain that to a couple that I was working with, and I was like, “My partner doesn’t talk to any of my friends.” and I looked at their partner and I said, space, be very honest, what would be the point of talking to any of their friends, and they said, “I don’t know.” and their partners like, “Because they’re my friends.” And I’m like, “So, why?”

C:

And that matters to me why?

K:

Yeah. I don’t talk to any of your friends and I don’t stop hanging out with any of your friends. So what would be the point? So number four, dislike, oh, this is a big one. The cost is on us. This podcast is so expensive. We have patrons that are offsetting some of the costs, but we’re still losing money on the podcast, but we’re so deep into it that I don’t feel like we can stop.

C:

I don’t feel like we’re stuck, I feel like we’re mostly offset. And at this point we’re doing some things with various things to reduce the costs more so it’s kind of become a social outlet, like you said, rather than, oh yeah, we’re going to have a podcast and we’re going to make money. We opened it up before things got to where everybody has a podcast. And if you can listen to us or you can listen to Madonna, obviously you should listen to us. But if you can listen to us or you can listen to your favorite celebrity, you might want to listen to them.

K:

Yeah.

C:

I almost put no paycheck on the dislike.

K:

Yeah?

C:

Yeah. I didn’t. But I almost did. I thought about it.

K:

Yeah. For me, what’s hard about it is, we’re coming up on two years.

C:

We’re past two years.

K:

We’re past two years. And we do have Patreon’s and we do have regular listeners and we totally appreciate you. And they say for non-celebrity, pod-casters, it’s just like any other small businesses. It takes five years to be successful. And it was still hard because everyone, the podcast, right when our podcast was blowing up, we’re still in the top 50% of all podcasts. But everybody started a podcast because they couldn’t work. So all the entertainers have podcasts. And I think we’re going to start seeing them not be able to maintain it, not be able to keep the pace of it.

C:

Yeah I think so. They have to make a choice between, do I do keep doing the podcast or do I go back to my regular gig?

K:

Yeah. And I think they will start going back to regular gig, but we’re consistently in the top 100 podcasts in the world for podcasts about Japan. And depending on the episode, sometimes we’re in the top 10 and we’re pretty regularly in the top 10 now for podcasts.

C:

Well, and just if you are thinking of starting a podcast and you are a celebrity, I’m going to remind you what happened to Mike Richards who wanted to host jeopardy and was taken down by his own podcast. So just watch out..

K:

So I think it’s your turn for likes for number five, likes.

C:

Number five. Okay. I can’t even read this. Oh no, it’s my turn for number four on the dislikes.

K:

Oh it’s your turn for number four?

C:

Yeah.

K:

On the likes.

C:

Did you just do number four on the likes?

K:

I did social side of Chad and cost is all on us. What was your number four for likes?

C:

No jealousy.

K:

Okay. Yeah. You did that one. So it’s number four on dislike.

C:

Yeah. And that’s the recording happens in us time and this is-

K:

In off times?

C:

In us time.

K:

Oh in us time.

C:

And I think this is probably the biggest one for me, which is that because we both have to be available whenever we record, it’s time that you and I could be spending doing something else.

K:

Oh, okay. So it takes away from our time.

C:

Yeah. And we have enough of our time and I like recording with you. So it’s not like a huge one. It’s just like some days it’s oh, I wanted that hour to spend with you not recording.

K:

So that’s so weird, because I number five on likes is having a long term project with you because I feel like it keeps us connected because I feel like sometimes we don’t have a conversation that’s not about your work. Like we can go three weeks with no conversations that aren’t about your work in our us time. And it feels like you’re always in a promotion cycle. And right now, again, you are in a promotion cycle and we’ve talked about it on the podcast before, how that makes it really work and intensive where we’re focusing on your work. And I feel like this is time where we’re scheduled to talk about something different.

C:

Yeah.

K:

And I feel like it keeps us connected because we have to find time to sit down and record.

C:

I do think that’s a positive aspect of it. It’s just sometimes the negative aspect of it too.

K:

So I jumped ahead. It was supposed to be your turn to go first. So what’s your number five for likes?

C:

My number five for likes is shared sense of purpose. And I think that’s what-

K:

Kind of the same right?

C:

Yeah, kind of the same. Yeah.

K:

We’re so made for each other. So far that’s been four out of six we’ve had the same. I kind of double downside time spent talking to you, but I feel like a longterm project was a little bit different and your number five is-

C:

Shared sense of purpose.

K:

Yeah. What do you mean by shared sense of purpose?

C:

I mean that we’re working on this together and we’ve agreed kind of what the point of the podcast is, which is just to talk about our lives and kind of, I feel like normalize a life that doesn’t fit into the normal ideals. And also we talk about Japan and that kind of thing and normalize Japan rather than exoticize it. I feel like it’s a living for the people who can get it going. But a lot of the Japan podcasts are all about how exotic Japan is and how they’re having this oriental experience.

K:

Yeah. And a lot of them are a single person. So that’s different. I’ll let you go first. What’s your number five for dislikes?

C:

Okay. So my paper comes up again. My number five for dislikes is I’m sometimes unsure about privacy.

K:

What do you mean?

C:

Sometimes there are things that I know about you that are relevant to the conversation that I don’t know whether you want them out there or not. There are some things about me that you don’t want me to say, like you haven’t forbidden me, you’ve just said, “That actually makes me uncomfortable when you talk about it.”

K:

Yeah. And those are usually the ones that get canned, where that really made me uncomfortable.

C:

Right. So I don’t mind them being canned. I’m more bothered by the fact that I made you uncomfortable than by the fact that we have to record a second episode.

K:

That’s nice. So my number five is you don’t think of topics.

C:

This is true.

K:

Of all of the episodes that we’ve recorded. And we have over a hundred now… Oh, sorry. That’s really going to bug Chad, the fact that you can hear my computer. Usually my computer’s down, but that was my Nord VPN that Chad has to use for work, notifying me that it needed an update. I wrote mine on computer and Chad very wisely wrote on paper.

C:

But I have the paper rustling sound. So I feel like we’re even on that.

K:

So we’re both committing sound crimes?

C:

Exactly.

K:

Yeah. Mine is that you don’t think of topics.

C:

Yeah, I don’t.

K:

And I knew that that was going to be the response I get. I don’t. That’s why I put it lower down on the list. Do you want to go first for likes on number six?

C:

Let me see on my notes before I answer that question. I think you should go first on that one.

K:

Okay. I like having a cohort that I can record with from bed, because I have officially become a bedridden Victorian child and I’m always naked because I’m a nudist. So I’m always naked and in bed. And we have the setup from my post surgery where we have like the surgical tray tables over the bed.

C:

Yeah. The C tables, the C shaped tables that can go, kind of slide underneath the bed and also above it and be adjusted.

K:

Yeah, and roll up and down. And so we can set everything we needed to record on top of it. So I love being able to record from bed and having a cohost I can record from bed. But I guess any cohost I could do that with if they weren’t in the house. But I don’t know, with you it just… I don’t think I would feel comfortable-

C:

I don’t think you would either.

K:

I really don’t even feel comfortable talking about it as much as I do. Because I mention it almost every episode.

C:

Yeah. I think that would be more awkward. You’d be like, “So cohost, I’m naked. How are you?”

K:

Yeah. So what’s your number six that you wanted me to go first?

C:

My number six is that we don’t fight over the audience, mostly.

K:

What do you mean?

C:

Like they’re not saying things to kind of zing me to make sure the audience likes you better or thinks you’re more clever. And I don’t think I do that too.

K:

Oh no.

C:

It’s a dynamic [inaudible 00:43:44]

K:

Yeah. They want to be the popular host.

C:

Yeah. And I feel like we want to be popular together.

K:

Yeah we do.

C:

So I don’t ever feel like I’m in competition with you for audience attention or audience likes.

K:

I feel like we both win. If the audience likes you more than they like me, I still win.

C:

Right.

K:

So there’s no reason. I think it was to just keep it. I think some people are listening to it for the dynamic between us and some people are listening to it for you. And some people are listening to it for me.

C:

I think. So. I’m always surprised. I like it. But I’m always surprised when people on Twitter primarily, like, “I like both of you, I listen to your podcast and I like both of you. I like how much you like each other.” Because to me it’s just, yeah I like you.

K:

Why are you married this long to someone you don’t like?

C:

Right.

K:

My throat – my voice is thick. So number six, do you want me to go first or do you want me to go first?

C:

For dislike?

K:

Yeah.

C:

Go first.

K:

Okay. Yeah. I am so fidgety. Today I’ve been playing with my glasses, I was spinning my glasses around and noticed that I was hitting my mic as I did it. And so I stopped doing it.

C:

There are two parts to it. One is I worry about the noises. And then two is I worry if Kisstopher is noticing the noises, that’s going to get mentioned. And then I’m going to be the noise ogre.

K:

I mention it every podcast, when I make a noise that upsets you.

C:

Yeah like, “Ooh, don’t make him mad. I still like him when he’s mad, don’t make him mad.”

K:

So my number six is something that’s on both of us. We both suck at promoting the podcast. Like we have a very active, engaged Twitter following and we get more listens when we promote it on Twitter.

C:

Yeah. Like, “Hey, it’s been 30 episodes since we’ve mentioned,”

K:

By the way we have a podcast.

C:

That’s seven months since we’ve mentioned we have a podcast.

K:

Yeah. And it’s made even worse that I’m like the head of marketing for Cinnabar moth. So like I’m awesome for marketing Cinnabar moth and marketing the writer’s triangle, which some episodes are approaching our numbers. Not all of them are. And so it’s cool and gratifying that that is performing well. But I wish I was better. I wish one of us was better at promoting the podcast.

C:

I think sometimes it’s easier to do something for somebody else, because there are a lot of things that I do at work that I just fall apart trying to do for us.

K:

Yeah. I’m the same way. So that wraps up this week’s episode of The Musicks in Japan and follow us on over to the take two, we’ll be talking about the writer’s triangle, our sort of new podcasts. I think it’s been out for a month now, a month or two. I don’t know. It’s the other weekly podcast I do. And it’s not just me. It’s me and [inaudible 00:47:07] but we’ll talk about it on the tape two. And if you’re not a Patreon for three bucks, you can get almost 200 at this point, different take two where we have written form, we have audio form, we’re talking about expansion of the episode. And we talk about some of our other projects and we have blog posts. It’s worth it. Three bucks. Think about it. So we hope you follow us on over to the podcast, over to the Patreon. And even if you don’t, we appreciate you listening. We appreciate each and every Musick Note and each and every listener. And if you’re a new listener, welcome to the family. Talk to you next week.

C:

Bye.

K:

Bye.