K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about how hard it is to make money in publishing and wondering “why in the heck did we open a press”. Like why didn’t we invest in real estate, cuz we can invest in real estate in Japan or invest in real estate in the United States. So what are we doing, how you living? That’s what I want to know, like it’s all your fault (laughs); like I didn’t go into this with you (laughs).

C: I feel like we were invested in commercial real estate in the U.S for a while.

K: Yeah, we were. Thank goodness we’re not anymore. That would’ve been horrid.

C: Right, and we had a rental property for like a minute, residential.

K: Yeah.

C: And I did not like being a landlord. Like there were several months that we didn’t even cash the rent check.

K: Yes, cuz we kept forgetting – not because we’re flossy and rich, but because we’re both really bad with checks.

K: Like we need everything direct deposited, and it got so bad that the renters called us up and they were like “you’re messing with our finances”. And we were like “okay” and i was like, “they should just direct deposit” but you didn’t trust him to direct deposit. Cuz in – so in Japan, bank accounts are really secure, I give my banking – like every single client I’ve ever worked with has my banking information. Every single one of them. And because it’s – you can’t take any money out.

C: Right.

K: And the one time we did have somebody take money out of an account, they were shut down that day and they went to jail.

C: And they took money out via debit card. Not via having our banking information.

K: Yeah. They did it via having the debit card information. They didn’t have the actual debit card.

C: Right.

K: And we called the bank that day as soon as we saw the charge, and the bank like – it’s not like in the U.S, in the U.S if you have something like that happen it’s really hard to get the money back. In Japan as soon as, they give the money back cuz everywhere you can use a debit card there’s a camera. And so they can see the people who use it. There’s no “on the sly” way to use a debit card.

C: Well they were using it online, but I had to go file a police report. It was a whole thing but yeah, it got – we got the money back –

K: Yeah, I think it was way harder in the U.S cuz we got the money back as soon as you turned in the police report. And for you it was a whole thing cuz you had to go to two different offices.

C: In the U.S we had – we were on a trip, and we had somebody charge $7000 in plumbing against us for a plumbing job in Florida.

K: Yeah, we did.

C: And we got that money back in like a week.

K: Really?

C:Yeah.

K: Okay, nevermind. I’m just feeling like Japan’s better than America right now.

C: But on this it is, because in the U.S if I write you a check, then you have all the information necessary to write a fake check drawing on my account.

K: Yes, and Japan doesn’t do checks –

C: Japan doesn’t do checks. Japan, if you give out your banking information, the only thing that can be done with it is people can send you money.

K: Yes. So please let me know if you’d like our banking information. (Laughs)

C: Okay. We will send it to you –

K: Or you could just join our Patreon.

C: Thank you.

K: Just become a patron and give us money, or you can buy us Ko-fi.

C: But it’s cheaper if you just send us money directly so, if you are just feeling generous. You’re like –

K: Yeah. You’ve had people buy us coffees and I’ve always really appreciated it, but Ko-fi has changed so much since we first joined it. Like people are doing posts and stuff like Patreon, and I don’t have time for that.

C: Yeah, it – it’s a whole thing –

K: And it – yeah it’s open it – so anyone can see it, and then people buy them coffee after they read it. Maybe, maybe not; I don’t know.

C: I don’t know but, I don’t drink coffee. I appreciate the money, but I don’t drink coffee.

K: So, that’s not the whole thing babe. No one’s gonna make you drink coffee with the money.

C: Are you sure?

K: I know because people have given us money on Ko-fi before, and nobody asks us what we do with it.

C: Okay.

K: So, right now what we would do with it is re-invest it in the press.

C: Yes.

K: See, I did the segue come around.

C: You did the segue –

K: Yeah, I did the comeback around from the digression. So, why aren’t we investing in real estate?

C: Because it’s not a good investment.

K: So to be clear about where the money comes from, the money came from my business, my therapy practice. I’m what I think of as a super saver, and I’m super cheap, and we don’t eat out.

C: No.

K: Like we never eat out, we don’t own a car. And so there’s a lot of things that we just don’t have to pay for, and we’re really privileged – I’m super privileged that my business is literally a ten minute bike ride away. The shortest I’ve ever gotten it down to is like, seven minutes I think?

C: Yeah you called me up, you’re like “I made it in seven minutes.”

K: Yeah, it’s – hey, those three minutes, that’s burling up.

C: Yeah.

K: It takes a lot to shave three minutes off a bike ride, especially because it’s about the two lights –

C: Yeah, it’s about the traffic lights.

K: Yeah. And so –

C: It’s not about the distance, it’s about all the traffic lights.

K: Yes, so if you make one light, you have to race to the other light to make sure that you make it.

C: Yeah.

K: And so I always felt like “what?”, and especially if I was like half a block away from the first light, and I burled up to get that light and kept on burling to catch the second. I feel just like “oh man”. Cuz sometimes I just wanna get home.

C: There’s a reason when I met you everybody said, “her name is speed demon”.

K: Yeah, no one said that. No one said that.

C: Really?

K: Seriously no one said it, and don’t look at me like I was doing speed when you met me cuz I wasn’t. 

C: Nah, I wasn’t saying that –

K: Okay (laughs)

C: I was just like –

K: I was not doing drugs when we met, I was drug free except for smoking –

C: Some people thought you were “Racer x”, some people thought you were “Speed Racer”…

K: Nobody thought that, no I didn’t – I had like a junkie van when we met.

C: (laughs)

K: That like – I was afraid to go the speed limit, it was so junkie. Cuz if I would drive it at the speed limit for too long it would overheat.

C: Yeah. It would.

K: Yeah, you know that – 

C: I do yeah.

K: I was like “I need to pull over for a minute so that my van doesn’t overheat”. And you’re like “what’re you saying?”. I’m saying I need to pull over so my van doesn’t overheat, I’ve been driving it for too long.

C: But I only had a two seat car and there were three of us so, your van was it.

K: Yes, and everybody liked to ride in my van; I don’t know why.

C: Yeah.

K: It was a total hooptie so…. You bought me my first non-hooptie.

C: I did.

K: Yeah. So that was super, super nice. So, the money comes from us living a really trimmed down lifestyle. And being really privileged and really fortunate that we’re able to have a two income household. And being really privileged and really fortunate that I was able to save the money from my practice, and Chad was able to earn enough to pay all our bills.

C: Yeah.

K: So with the money from my practice I just banked everything, that – once the overhead was paid; I just banked everything. And did that for 5 years, no 7 years because we had been planning to either – we were working towards a specific money amount. I’m not gonna tell you what that amount is cuz nunya. That’s how much, nunya. And in saving that amount it was – this is the amount of money that, when we have it we’re just losing too much money because japanese banks don’t do interest. We’re just losing too much money for it to sit here. And so when we hit this goal we need to invest x y z amount of it.

C: Yeah.

K: And when we hit the goal, we had been kind of talking about various things that we were gonna invest in. So in Japan there’s no parking anywhere, so we were thinking about buying a parking lot. And then they demolish the parking lot – there’s a parking lot that was for sale for like the longest time across the street from our house, and then they demolished it and made it a rental car place. I was like “dang, I wanted to buy that lot”.

C: Well there was one that they demolished and made into a restaurant as well.

K: Yeah, and we wanted to buy that one first cuz that one was like literally right next door, like we could look out our window – and we could see both from our window, different windows in the house…

C: And the thing about that one is the restaurant just had a sign out the other day saying “celebrating our 10 year anniversary”.

K: What?

C: That restaurant has been up for 10 years.

K: No it hasn’t.

C: It has.

K: No.

C: That was my emotional reaction – I went back through our pictures, cuz we took pictures while it was being built, and yeah it was 10 years ago.

K: Wow. Okay, so 10 years ago we didn’t have enough money to buy a parking lot, and we were saving to buy a parking lot, and that one parking lot got turned into two restaurants actually.

C: Right, and to be clear this was not Paradise. Paradise was not being paved to put up a parking lot. 

K: Wow, really?

C: Yeah.

K: I think it may have one point been Paradise that got paved to put up a parking lot.

C: Maybe. It was a wood storage shed before that.

K: Yes, so they tore down the wood storage shed, and then they made it into a parking lot. And I thought for sure it was gonna be a poppin parking lot, and it was. It was full, cuz we’re right next to – like several major transportation hubs that have no parking anywhere near them.

C: Yes.

K: Which, that just blows my mind that there’s these major transportation hubs – cuz in the United States if you have a major transportation hub there is some parking.

C: Yeah, you’re so used to Park N Go in California

K: No, not Park N Go, I’m thinking of Fremont Bart.

C: Yeah, Fremont Bart has inadequate parking.

K: It’s inadequate, but it has a parking lot.

C: Yeah it does, cuz everybody that complained about it I was like – 

K: But by now it might not, I don’t know – 

C: Yeah, I don’t know but – 

K: 16 Years ago, Fremont Bart had a parking lot and there was also street parking, and there was extension parking that you could take a bus from. That you could park there and then bus to it.

C: Yeah, I used to –

K: You never wanted to do the extension parking.

C: No, I always thought “I don’t know what the big deal is about the parking at Fremont, there’s always a space when I go”.

K: Yeah, cuz you had a Miata.

C: And I went at 6 am.

K: Yeah.

C: So I tried going at like 11 am once and I was like, “where’s all the parking? What the heck”.

K: No, Yeah. There’s none. And I tell you, there’s not gonna be any parking.

C: Yeah.

K: And I told you “don’t park at Nations. They tow”.

C: (laughs)

K: Nations does not play around. They will tow you, cuz they have 6 spots in front of that – in front of the Nations. I don’t even know if the Nations over by Fremont Bart is still there. But there’s – there’s this one shopping centre that had Nations and a really great deli. And so we would get –  cuz they had the best, the absolute best Dutch crunch buns.

C: Yeah.

K: And I told you “you have to try their Dutch crunch nuns”. And you’re like “what is a Dutch crunch bun”. And I’m like “It’s awesome that’s what it is, you have to try it”. Did you love em?

C: Yeah I did.

K: So why didn’t we buy like I don’t know, business zoned property that like – cuz in Japan there’s a lot of restaurants and then apartments on top. Why didn’t we purchase something mixed use – I was kind of thinking of doing that right?

C: Yeah, so we were looking at mixed use, and that’s something that we might still do in the future… cuz Japan’s laws are weird, but there’s basically no property appreciation in terms of increased value here in Japan. So if you buy something, that’s probably what you’re gonna sell it for. If you buy something in a popular place.

K: Yeah.

C: But there are houses available in the countryside for like $500 for the house and the land.

K: Yeah.

C: But then you have to get a permit to tear down the house because it won’t be inhabitable, you have to find out how much taxes are owed on the land. It ends up being like a real crapshoot as far as what you’re getting.

K: So, some of those deals are really good.

C: Yeah.

K: Cuz I have a friend that bought one for – I think it was $10,000. They bought a house and the land, and then they had to invest another $15,000 in it. And they got a really nice two-story house on a plot of land that like – I’m American so deal in acres and it was on about an acre of land. And it was out in the countryside where they choose to live anyways – that’s where they wanna live. And for me I think that’s a good – that’s a sweet deal. To get an acre of land and a two-story house for all told like renovations and everything $25,000.

C: If we wanted to live in the countryside, we could sell our apartment here, buy some place in the countryside –

K: I don’t wanna live in the countryside, we don’t drive.

C: Exactly this is the big if. Like if we did, we could have a very big place out in the country, but we discovered we don’t like a big place. And we don’t wanna live out in the country –

K: This place is too big.

C: Right.

K: But I’m too lazy to move.

C: (laughs)

K: And it’s conveniently located near everything I wanna be around.

C: And we have almost 900 square feet.

K: It’s huge.

C: Yeah.

C & K: For Japan yeah.

K: So in America you’re like “you live in a shoe box” if you’re listening to this in America. In Europe, they’re like “that’s a good size”.

C: Yeah.

K: So, take that Americans. I don’t know what the Canadians think. I don’t know why I’m being so aggressive to Americans right now. Americans have done nothing to me, and America is doing nothing to me. I think I’m kinda surly cuz… I’ll be honest, I need and want another Stimulus check.

C: (laughs)

K: Cuz I’m out of work right now cuz I’m too sick to work, and that’s putting – that’s like making me feel pinched.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m an earner, and I like to earn and the press right now – real talk, it’s not earning, it’s not breaking even. And you know, to be fully transparent like if you’re listening to this in 2022, we’re recording it in – this is July of 2022 and I think – 

C: This is July of 2021, don’t put us a year ahead.

K: Okay. I did that like on twitter, I was like “we opened the press in October 2022 and we’re already doing all this, that and the other”. And someone was like “you’re so awesome, you went into the future and did that”.

C: (laughs)

K: Like, yes I did thank you. 2021 and the press is opened in October but we did not publish a book until february.

C: Right.

K: And then we published another book in –

Both: May.

K: And now we’re publishing another book in August –

C: August, September, October, December. Yeah.

K: Yeah. So the reason we’re publishing at the rate we’re publishing at is for me to learn, and for the team to learn, because we also did like The Stroke of Genius – everyone who works for the press is green. (laughs) Nobody has any experience in publishing. Like nobody, and we have to have employees, because we can’t do it all – it’s too much. And Chad doesn’t do anything for the press, and he’s always trying to. So, no that’s not fair. That’s not fair, you do a lot of stuff for the press.

C: Thank you.

K: You do a lot of scheduling, and ordering of things and like – but it’s really random cuz if I get overloaded and the team gets overloaded, and we’re like “we just need like 10 or 15 things”. Like everybody has – cuz everybody’s like “I just have one thing, I just have one or two things, and I just have three things”; and it adds up really quickly, and we usually give you about 15 to 20 things a week to do. I think –

C: And I have 7 years of experience in publishing. What I don’t have is experience in publishing fiction.

K: Yeah. So you have – and it’s not even just like non-fiction. It’s scientific publishing.

C: Yes.

K: Which is not like a memoir.

C: No it’s like textbooks, and papers, and monographs and all kinds of things.

K: But that’s not why we opened the press.

C: No. We opened the press because –

K: Tell the truth about how it happened.

C: Okay. We opened the press because I wanted to publish my book.

K: Yes. So this is how I found out we were opening a press. Do you wanna tell the people? Confess.

C: No, no go ahead.

K: No. Confess.

C: I can’t tell your perspective.

K: Oh my gosh, tell your perspective of what happened.

C: Okay. This is how Kisstopher found out we were opening a press. I said, “Kisstopher we’re gonna be rich”, and she said “what?”. And I said, “yeah, we’re opening a press”, and she said “Oh my God, all my dreams are coming true”.

K: (laughs) No. I wanted to do real estate. I had a whole plan for real estate.

C: This is why I told you, you should tell the story.

K: So how I found out is – y’all know we’re puzzlers and we do jig-saw puzzles. I was sitting at the kitchen table doing a jig-saw puzzle. And I get up and I walk over, and I can see Chad’s computer. And on the computer is this gorgeous moth. Which I love, and Chad – as I’m walking over I can see it and Chad’s like, “hey take a look this”.

 I look at it and I’m like “what is that?”. And he said “it’s a cinnabar moth, what do you think?” and I said “I love it”, he said “great, I’m gonna name it Cinnabar Moth”. And I said “what are you naming?” “The press. I’m gonna name it Cinnabar Moth Press”. And I was like “what press” “the press. To publish my book.” I said “what are you talking about? What are you talking about.” and then it was just like “we’re just gonna open the press, and we’re just gonna put out a couple books and” –

C: Cuz you were on board with me self publishing.

K: Yeah. I was.

C: But you didn’t know it was gonna mean turning it into a whole business endeavor.

K: No, I did not. I did not. So, I found out in September of 2021 that we were opening a press, and I was – I’m still doing my P.H.D, and working full time at my practice. And, you have a job.

C: Yeah.

K: So I was like, “how are we gonna do this?” because Rasta also works for my practice. And so our son works for my practice, and I was just like “how are we gonna do this? We’re all super, super busy.” And you looked at me, and you said “you’ll make it work”. I was like “what? What?”. And you said “I have faith in you.” And I was like “you have too much faith in me.”

C: (laughs)

K: “You have too much faith in me”. So… that is how it came about, and we just – we didn’t do a business plan. Which, bad us. If you’re gonna do a business, do a business plan. This is the first business I’ve ever opened without a business plan, cuz Chad does not believe in business plans. Tell the people why you don’t believe in business plans.

C: It’s unfair to say that I don’t believe in business plans.

K: You don’t believe you should ever have to write one.

C: That’s unfair too because we have a business plan now.

K: That I devised, put together – 

C: Yes.

K: And proposed to you, and then you gave me several revisions.

C: Yes.

K: Until I wrote the business plan that – of your dreams.

C: Thank you.

K: Yeah. You’re welcome.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m not angry about it, if I sound aggressive. I’m not angry. And I was like, “don’t get it twisted, you did not write the business plan.”.

C: I think that you can write a business plan too early. In saying like, I don’t know enough about this industry, but I’m gonna make guesses. And then those guesses get locked in, as though they were founded as something more than being a guess. And I find that it’s hard to change a business plan once you’ve written it because everybody gets invested in that business plan.

K: But you don’t share it with everybody. Our employees, the rest of the team does not – like they have a rough sketch, and every couple of months I update them when I feel like something has cemented in my mind.

C: Yeah.

K: So they don’t know, they don’t care.

C: They don’t know.

K: They’re like “deposit my salary. What do I care beyond the money that you’re paying me.” Like, our legal team doesn’t care.

C: No.

K: Editing team does not care about our business plan. Does it pay their bills?

C: Yeah.

K: Narration team. They don’t care; does the check clear…. Same with all the authors, does the check clear. That’s all anybody cares about, and I find it so interesting that we have such a different view on that. You’re like, “we should bring them all in, and let everybody know” and like I’m super transparent with the authors. I’ll tell them anything they wanna know about their book. But, I won’t tell them anything about anyone else’s book because that’s not their business.

C: Well, I think that – you said it already, so it’s not gonna be any shock. We’re losing money on the press at the moment.

K: Yeah.

C: We think that this is gonna happen for several more years.

K: Several. He didn’t say seven he said several.

C: Several. After which we hope to make money on it.

K: Yeah.

C: And I think with the real estate, when we looked at that as one way to invest, in Japan, it’s extremely low margin, and is somewhat high risk. And the way that people try to mitigate that risk, is by being super, like, cruel to their tenants if they’re doing residential.

K: Mmm.

C: And I’m not up for that. I’m not up for like… monthly inspections and charging people if you find a pinhole in the wallpaper and, I’m like, “it’s an apartment, it’s gonna have wear and tear on it.”.

K: But, my landlords don’t mess with me and don’t inspect me and don’t do any of that for my business.

C: Because your apartment was in perfect condition when you took it.

K: No. It’s in horrible condition.

C: Right. And so I think that’s what it was, is like “do we rent out horrible condition places and not care? Do we rent out great condition places but always have to be worried?” And then you can hand over management to a management company and that –

K: No, I was gonna make Rasta go to school.

C: Yeah.

K: And get – cuz in Japan you can’t just manage property. You have to have a management company, or you have to have a professional manager to manage the property. And in the United States, I could just go buy property and manage it, and no one would say anything. But in Japan, you have to have a real estate accountant, you have to have a real estate lawyer, and you have to have a real estate manager. 

C: Yeah.

K: You have to have all three of those, and if you’re going to rent to foreigners you have to have a professional real estate guarantor company to back them because they did away with having – people have to have individual personal guarantors, and now they’ve moved to professional guarantors. And what that is, is it’s a company that guarantees that the person renting the apartment will pay their rent, and will fulfill their lease.

C: It’s an insurance company basically because if the tenant doesn’t, then the company will pay it for – I think 3 months.

K: Yeah.

C: And start eviction proceedings and that whole thing, and we just didn’t wanna be…

K: You.

C: I don’t want to be part of that.

K: So for me, the turning point on real estate – and this is what opened the door for the press – is that I did not want to buy houses in the United States because the real estate market is so volatile. And we had to really pick the timing of when to leave the United States based on the real estate market, so that we wouldn’t lose a bunch of money when we sold our house.

C: Right.

K: And I was like, studying it and looking at the forecasts and the trends and all of that. And then shortly after – I feel bad for the people who bought our house in the United States cuz shortly afterwards there was a huge crash.

C: But if they held it for at least 5 years, then they’re making good money on it so.

K: Yeah. So – cuz it’s appreciating.

C: Yeah.

K: And that’s the difference, with American real estate if you can write off the crashes, and if you can keep rental properties full, then it appreciates every year. It becomes more valuable depending on the neighbourhood that you’re in. And the neighbourhood that our house was in, every year it would become more valuable; there would be a crash, and then we would just ride the next bubble. 

C: Yeah.

K: Because that’s the cycle, that American real estate gets so bloated that it pops, and then it refills. It pops and refills. And I felt like not being there in the United States that I couldn’t suss it out for myself cuz I would do so much research but a lot of it was also talking to friends and neighbours and people on the ground. And paying attention to what was being sold, cuz I would – when we were getting ready to leave, I was driving the neighbourhood to see – is anything else for sale in our neighbourhood –

C: Yeah, is anybody planning to move?

K: Yeah.

C: Like, are we gonna be competing against other houses in exactly this neighbourhood?    And if so, is ours at the level that we want it to be relative…

K: Oh, our house was cherry.

C: Yes. Very much so.

K: The realtor was just like “oh my god, this house is amazing except for one thing.” All the rooms were painted different colours.

C: Well, and the foundation was cracked, but we fixed that.

K: Yeah. That foundation is cracked again. That foundation will perpetually crack because it’s built on sand.

C: Yes.

K: And I wish I understood that because I don’t know if we would’ve bought that house. And I was really happy in that house. The reason we didn’t rent that house is because we used the money from selling that house to move to Japan.

C: Yes.

K: So, that’s how we came to Japan. We sold our house, and I sold my business, and we came to Japan on that money. So, not being in the United States, I didn’t feel like I could rent. I didn’t feel like I could buy. Why didn’t you wanna buy in the United States?

C: I think I didn’t wanna buy in the United States because – the commercial real estate had been involved in that, and that was like decent money but there’s always the push to move into new stuff because of the tax rules. So there’s like a whole boring thing if you’re not into property, there’s something called a ten thirty one exchange, where every year your building depreciates in value nominally. And then if you sell it, you have to pay taxes as if you paid zero for the building, but if you immediately buy a bigger building, then you can roll the tax basis over on what’s called a ten thirty one exchange. So, the whole business is set up on buying ever more real estate.

K: Yeah.

C: Not on buying something and getting steady income from it.

K: Yes. So, once you get into American real estate, it’s really hard to get out.

C: Yes.

K: And it’s designed that way to lock people in. And I feel like American real estate is designed for foreclosure, to push people into foreclosure and to have people – because we had like on the regular, people offering us loans. And irresponsible loans, and irresponsible mortgages that was just like a lot of money up front but also just wild, wild, you know, rates and just… not good stuff, so that kind of put me off. And then in Japan what put me off, is that I had this vision of buying a cute little unit like the one that was – that I use for my office, and then fixing it up. So buying cheap, fixing it up, upgrading it, and charging more rent.

 And raising the rent, and getting a nice exchange, and I was researching that and everything and really big on the idea. And then I had – I helped a client  move into a brand new apartment, and what they did to that apartment hurt my heart. Like I felt so bad for the landlords, I just – for the owners of the unit, I feel so bad because it was pristine when they moved in. Brand – everything was new, and they ruined it.

C: Mhm.

K: Just ruined it. And then another client did the same thing – that I was helping move out, they just ruined a brand new apartment, and I know the culture in Japan is that you just assume every tenant is going to ruin your building – ruin your unit. Cuz I was talking to my Japanese friends. and they were like “yea everybody ruins it” and I was like “what”. Like you just expect that you have to steam the apartment when someone moves out, to replace the wallpaper and replace all of the flooring, and replace the cooking unit. And… I was just like “what are you saying to me right now? That’s wild.” And I don’t have the heart for that.

C: Yeah.

K: I would take it really personally, and like that’s why we ask for so much – that’s why we have key money and deposit and all of that, is so that we can have the money to – we’re supposed to – and then, in Japan you have to keep a certain amount of money for repairs stashed away for every piece of property that you own. It’s actually quite expensive to do real estate in Japan.

C: Well, and that’s typically a rule for commercial real estate in the U.S. When I was – when I had commercial real estate, we had to have a repair reserve of a certain percentage of the value of the building just available for repairs and things. And the fact that you don’t have to have that for residential property I think is –

K: I think leads to slumlords.

C: Yeah. It does.

K: Because you could just get so underwater on the property that you can’t afford to make repairs. I think some slumlords are slumlords because they wanna be, but I think others just get underwater, and they can’t afford to make the repairs necessary for it to be habitable.

C: Yeah. And so I feel like with publishing that when we looked at it, the economics of it short term were pretty bad.

K: Yes.

C: Like most people who self-publish don’t make very much money, and because we spend –

K: Seven books.

C: And because we spend a substantial amount of money on covers, and audio books, and editing and all of that kind of stuff –

K: The audio books are rocking the house.

C: Yeah.

K: They rock the bells. Man, oh man, they’re expensive.

C: Yeah. Which we could do them on the cheap by putting it up on the Audible exchange – 

K: No, that is your fantasy.

C: No, and saying a fifty-fifty with the narrator and no money up front –

K: That is your fantasy you keep saying – I went, and I looked on audible – I’m the one who looks this stuff up –

C: Okay.

K: You told me that and so I was like “huh, maybe we should do that.” No. People are saying that, so when you go and you click and you like – you look on Fiverr, and you look on Upwork, and you look on ACX, everybody is low balling. But then when you wanna talk contract, oh everybody’s rates all of a sudden wanna jump and double. 

C: Yeah.

K: So, for me I feel like it’s a bait and switch.

C: Oh it’s total – and it –

K: So, you’re talking like you could really do it, and you can’t – 

C: I don’t think you can do it. And I definitely don’t think you can do it ethically because either you believe that you’re gonna make the money, or you’re offering somebody half of nothing to do all that narration work. And I didn’t feel right about doing that.

K: Well – and I’m looking at what most publishers are doing. If you’re gonna self-publish, I highly advise everybody: just do e-books man. E-books are just so inexpensive to do.

C: Yeah.

K: Like, but we can’t cuz we’re a publisher, and so we have to offer something more – from my perspective, as a publishing house we have to offer something more, something that’s a little bit out of reach for the self-publish. And one of the things that we do that self-publishers can do some and not others is we put books forward for awards that only publishers can do. We do audio books which; huge investment, and we do high-end custom made book covers and –

C: And as of our third book which is – it’s third because that’s when they’ll start doing it, we’re not gonna have our books deposited in Library of Congress, and like it’s a whole thing.

K: Yeah, there’s a lot of perks to being published with a publisher.

C: But I feel like the way that we’re doing it is completely ethical and that makes me happy.

K: Yeah, we’re not charging the authors for anything, we’re not telling them that they should use their advance to promote their book. We have a promotion plan that we do and we, you know, building our social media platform. I’m just doing twitter, I’m not trying to – I just feel like we don’t have enough books to do Instagram. I think when – I think maybe next year I might do Instagram, but it’s gonna be lazy instagram. Like I’m not gonna put any effort into it. I’m just gonna have it on the website and link it to – and I’m just gonna –

C: Post covers.

K: Yes. That’s it. Post covers and book trailers. That’s it, two posts a month, what… what? (laughs)

C: Okay.

K: Be happy you get that cuz I do see the allure of Instagram. And I think it might be nice maybe to do like – cuz every book has reviews – maybe do like a review snippet. So I could see maybe doing once a week on Instagram next year. But starting the press and launching it, man, oh man. I’m working seven days a week, 16 hour days.

C: Yeah, so here’s the business plan and the secret sauce, in case you want to start a press and take over. We pay attention to the authors, we try and do our best to get a good cover, we make an audio book, we spend some money advertising. We make things, we spend a lot of money on the books and then we hope people buy them. There you go, there’s the secrets.

K: And I would say if you don’t have an angel investor, save up. Kind of like, start saving your coins now. 

C: Yeah.

K: And plan to take like, you know, a five to seven year run, cuz you’re probably not gonna be breaking even for the first three to five years –

C: Yeah, and so we’re trying to build a brand with Cinnabar Moth, that’s why we got a great logo, we put that name on everything –

K: Yeah, you have to invest in a logo and a website… and all of that. So something I’m really excited about, and this is an exclusive for just Musick Notes, I haven’t tweeted it out, I haven’t said it to anyone else but I love you and we’re family. We’re all beautiful Musick Notes together – is that, I’m starting a solo podcast, well it’s not really – it’s kind of a solo podcast called The Writers Triangle for Cinnabar Moth, and it’s not gonna be like the take twos where its intimate and it’s mine and Chad’s take on publishing.

 It’s going to be just me, hot on the mic so, (laughs) if y’all love my laugh and can stand my voice and all of that and think i’m interesting and fun – it’s a different flavor. It’s a more serious and – there’s still digression and absent mindedness because that’s who I am – that’s who I be.

C: Yeah.

K: But talking about the ins and outs of publishing and then – so, it’s gonna air twice a week, and it’s going to be on the Cinnabar Moth website. And the first one – the first Monday in Japan time of every month, which works out to be Sunday in most of the rest of the world, we’re doing it at 1 – we’re scheduling it to drop at 1 a.m. Japan time Monday to try and hit the sweet spot for everyone. And the first one is going to be – two are going to drop simultaneously, and we’re gonna have episode 0, and I think that episode 0 is just me talking about the set up of the podcast cuz I love an episode 0.

 And then the second episode that’s dropping simultaneously on the first Monday in August is an interview with the author whose book is coming out in August. And it’s going to – no not the first sorry the second – no the first, the first Monday. The first cuz we’re doing it the first and third Monday of every month. And on the – so you’re gonna get episode 0, which is me talking just about the set up of Cinnabar Moth and why I’m doing Writers Triangle.

 And then the second one is going to be an interview, and I think it’s really cool because it’s going to be Rasta, our son who y’all know is just my family. 

C: Yeah.

K: And so you’ll get to hear him and see what he’s about, he’s going to be interviewing the authors. And so the first Monday’s going to be an author interview, and the third Monday is going to be me talking about the business of publishing. And we also started a Cinnabar Moth youtube channel, which I think is really cute.

And we have stuff come out every week, and it’s already launched – it’s Cinnabar Moth Pub on youtube. And we have sneak peaks of the books, we have meet the characters, we’ll have little snippets of meet the authors, we’ll have – so we already have sneak peaks, we already have meet the characters, and we have everything that –

C: We have some book playlists and –

K: Yeah. Everything that you need if you’re a book club. So, tell them what’s in the book playlists.

C: I think everybody’s done a playlist of songs that they think goes with the book.

K: Yeah.

C: And then some people have also done foods.

K: Yes. I did your food, so that’s why you don’t know that you did food.

C: And some people have done drinks.

K: I did your drinks, and that’s why you don’t know everybody does drinks.

C: Yeah, cuz I’m like – 

K: Cuz you’re not a cooperative author.

C: I’m not. Food and drinks, pizza and coke like… what, that’s done.

K: No. Just no.

C: (laughs)

K: Go check out the Not My Ruckus playlist.

C: But I did the songs, I did the song choices –

K: Yeah, you did the songs. I did the – and we did the lineups together, and other than that I couldn’t get Chad to do anything. Cuz he was like “I don’t know how to find a food video on youtube” –

C: Thank you, I’m a writer. What –

K: Oh my gosh

C: I don’t even watch youtube for entertainment. I don’t understand people who do.

K: Oh my gosh. You do, too, watch youtube.

C: Do I?

K: Yes you do.

C: When you show me.

K: Oh my gosh, he’s being a liar liar right now, I feel –

C: I don’t ever watch youtube. Like not –

K: You only watch it with me.

C: I only watch it with you.

K: So, therefore you watch youtube.

C: Not on my own. Like, it’s voluntarily because if you wanna spend time with me I’m down for that, however you wanna spend that time. But, youtube is one of my least favourite websites.

K: Wow.

C: Yeah.

K: As a youtuber that hurts my heart. I’m a booktuber now.

C: Well, your videos don’t ever have random strobe.

K: That’s true, and I make sure the videos I watch don’t have flashing. And if they do, I turn my computer so that you don’t have a seizure.

C: Yeah.

K: So, it’s also going to – the channel also has book trailers and in November because we don’t – because we’re not – we don’t have a book coming out this November, there’s going to be me talking about the business of publishing. And then, I think next year in – this year in December – cuz I don’t believe we should publish books in January. I have this tick in my brain that people don’t buy books in January; I know that’s not true, but I just can’t shake it. So, we’re not publishing books in January. (laughs)

C: Well, and I feel like – I feel like here’s the thing… is that we are not actually in competition with other small presses.

K: No we’re not. We’re good friends like, one of my best twitter buds is Outcast Press. Which I absolutely adore.

C: If you have heard of us as a press, we are winning.

K: Yeah.

C: We are in competition against the big four, who dominate most of publishing; just to get noticed –

K: I’m not in competition with them. I’m doing my own unique thing. I’m not in competition with anybody.

C: What I’m saying – Yes, we’re doing our own unique thing. But, if independent publishing gets stronger, then that’s good for us.

K: Yes.

C: And so, when we give away this information it is with the intent that independent publishing gets stronger – 

K: And self-publishing gets stronger –

C: I count self-publishing as independent publishing. I was just about to say, if you choose to self-publish using the information; rock on, we are happy that we provided that information to you.

K: @ us on twitter, and we’ll retweet your stuff.

C: Yeah.

K: Like, that blows other presses’ minds when I retweet their releases. I don’t retweet their releases that come out on the same day as our releases, but… sometimes I do. Cuz I feel like there’s enough twitter to go around for everyone. 

C: Right.

K: And I feel like if you like this book, you might like that book, and if you like that book you might like this book. Avid readers are gonna read.

C: Yes.

K: So readers read. There are enough eyes, and there’s new eyes being born every day.

C: Thank you.

K: It’s just not that serious.

C: Like if you’re looking for something like Nicholas Sparks: The Notebook but published independently, you’re not gonna wanna buy Not My Ruckus –

K: Mn-mn, not at all. But they may wanna get Relatively Normal Secrets, which is our September release. Or they might want – they might like, maybe not as much cuz I think it’s not as close. But I think if you like Y A fantasy, then you’d absolutely love Drōmfrangil, and if you like Adult Fantasies and Dark Pixies you’ll absolutely love Pixies In The Mist. It’s twisted.

C: Mm-hmm.

K: It’s twisted and dark. And then we have our anthology in December, and I know I’ve been plugging the hell out of everything just right then and there; but y’all know me. I’m always plugging something at the end of the podcast. 

C: (laughs)

K: And at least I wait until the end of the podcasts.

C: Yes.

K: I don’t do it like the whole podcast long. I’m not defensive about it at all.

C: Not in the least bit.

K: Not even the tiniest. So, here I am like just rattling off all of our books, but they should visit CinnabarMoth.com – I’m gonna go whole hog –

C: They should. And click on books, see what you like.

K: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, and if you’re a Musick Note and you promise to leave a review; at us on twitter and be like, “hey I’m a Musick Note, can i get a book?” And I’ll be like, “Yes, but you only get one book at a time and if you review that book, I’ll give you another book.” Cuz I’m like that. I’m generous like that. And if you did it on Amazon, oh my gosh, that is the juiciest ever.

C: Mm-hmm. (laughs)

K: That is just like – you’re giving me – I’m not gonna sing cuz you don’t deserve that punishment, but you’re giving me the sweetest taboo on that. And that’s why I’m in love with you cuz whew.

C: M’kay.

K: Amazon’s a hustle –

C: No shade on that.

K: (laughs) No sawdey on that.

(Laughter)

K: So, thank you so much for listening, and if you like what you’re hearing, follow us on over to the take two, and we’ll talk about when – when did the press feel legitimate and like a real business, and something that we can see making money one day? Cuz the struggle is real. (laughs)

C: It is. Thank you.

K: Thank you so much for your time and resources cuz you know, your time and attention is a valuable resource, and we love that you tune it every week. We are so thrilled to be in the top 50% of podcasts. Thank you Musick Notes, we absolutely love you. And on Player FM, we’re usually in the top 20 for podcasts about Japan, and we totally appreciate that. So, we appreciate you, and we hope you listen to us next week, when I think – I think we’re gonna be talking about the Paralympics? Although I’m not sure. Don’t hold me to that, I don’t know.

C: We won’t hold you to anything.

K: (laughs) You all know better than that. Thanks for listening.

Both: Bye.