K: So lately I’ve been thinking about the fact that I am – so, in the past we’ve talked about – I think we’ve talked about – I know we’ve talked about the fact that I’m a bad boss. And we’ve talked about the fact that I’m a bad employee. But I don’t think we talked about the fact that I always start my own business. I have always been fortunate enough. I will work for someone else to save the coin to start my own business. As soon as possible. I do not like working for other people at all, but you, on the other hand, I think it’s really interesting because you have climbed the corporate ladder in the United States. You’ve climbed the corporate ladder in Japan, working for a Japanese company, and now you’ve climbed the corporate ladder in Australia. And so, I think that’s interesting because you’ve done it in three countries across three decades.

C: Yes. Yeah, it’s across 3

K: It’s across three decades.

C: I had to think maybe it’s four and then I was like no, I did not start working when I was less than 10.

K: Oh my gosh. You see this Musick Notes? You see this?

C: Well because it’s 21. Which means that it only has to be.

K: This constantly falls aging of yourself. It’s sad at this point, Chad. You’re just a young sprite of a man.

C: You say it’s getting sad, but do you mean it’s getting old?

K: No, I mean you’re not old.

C: (laughs)

K: I’m older.

C: You are older.

K: I’m a woman of a certain age. I am older than you.

C: You are a woman of a certain age indeed.

K: I am a human of a certain age. I have to stop saying I’m a woman of a certain age. It’s confusing to people. It’s confusing to people. When I was still doing therapy, being agender was confusing to people, and it made them not want me as a therapist. Even though my gender has nothing to do with it because I’m not a sex therapist or a gender therapist.

C: Right.

K: It was just so tiresome. Like, super, super religious people that are really living in the binary just feels so threatened by me being agendered.

C: They’re like, “I need to not only know about your genitals, but also need to know that you know about your genitals.

K: yeah, I don’t get what the obsession is. Like if I’m not in the room and you’re like she and her’ing me and I don’t hear you, it doesn’t bother me. And why would you call me she if you’re in the same room as me. That is weird.

C: That is weird. Like why didn’t you refer to me in the third person we’re talking together?

K: Right?

C: Second person is you.

K: Like not using pronouns if like check out our Twitter feed. I rarely use them. So, I do use her girl and stuff in the drag sense because I grew up in drag culture. And it’s not really referring to a gender.

C: You’re saying it’s at least as gender free as calling everybody, dude.

K: As calling everybody what?

C: Dude.

K: Dude?

C: Yeah, as a Northern Californian.

K: Yeah. I do dude a lot and mayne. I’ve stopped using man because I have a lot of really beautiful trans women in my life, and they don’t like dude and man, even though it’s just the valley girl in me. I’ve really changed my language on that. Now it’s just about changing the language on me. But talked about like getting off topic right from the start, right?

C: Yeah, I was just sitting here thinking that being sensitive to people’s pronouns has actually never been important in climbing the corporate ladder, which is kind of sad.

K: (laughs) Good for you for getting in your side way that you thought of.

C: Thank you. And sometimes those corporate letters have just been like a step stool. Not a big ladder. Other times it’s been a bigger ladder.

K: So, your first decade of ladder climbing happened in your 20s.

C: In my teens actually.

K: Yeah, because you started when you were 19.

C: Yeah.

K: Do not do the whole McDonald’s thing. I’m not doing that.

C: No, the whole McDonald’s thing.

K: No. No, just now. We’ve talked about McDonald’s.

C: Ok, so then we have to skip because.

K: Yes, we’re skipping your teens.

C: Ok, then I don’t have any other U.S. examples because in the tech world.

K: That is not true. In the tech world you climbed the ladder by switching jobs.

C: I’m just gonna say in the tech world I changed jobs to change positions because in Silicon Valley at least it was a lot easier to get a new job at a higher level than to get a promotion in your current job.

K: We have a very dear friend who’s going through that.

C: Yes.

K: It’s still a thing.

C: Yes, it is still a thing.

K: So why don’t you think it’s topical?

C: Oh, it is topical. It’s topical.

K: And I feel like – ok wait, we have to be really – we have two friends that we talk about a lot on the podcast. And I just have to get a shout out to Puddin. Because Puddin has now given me permission to call them Puddin.

C: Yes, yes.

K: Because they are sweet.

C: Yes.

K: And warm. And wonderful. And I adore them. Just like Puddin.

C: And if you let them cool off, they probably have that little skin thing that’d form on top that you would have to take off with a spoon.

K: What are you talking about? They have nothing negative about them at all.

C: (laughs)

K: They would never cool off. They are always warm Pudding.

C: Ok.

K: Just to put it out there. Hi Puddin. I feel like we should make that a thing of this show where we make give Puddin a shout out every show. (laughs)

C: I will think about that.

K: Well, we have to ask Puddin. Because it’s really up to them.

C: Yes.

K: Because if they don’t like it then we shouldn’t do it.

C: Yes.

K: I have permission, but I don’t know if they’d like a “hey Puddin” every show.

C: I guess we’ll find out.

K: Yeah. (laughs) Yes, please let us know Puddin if you don’t want a Puddin shoutout.

C: So, the interesting thing to me about the American corporate ladder is how much of it is based on bluster.

K: Yeah.

C: And how much of it is based on the ability to wait for a position.

K: The ability to what?

C: Wait for a position to open up.

K: Oh yeah. You don’t have to wait. I don’t get it is just having to wait for a position to open up. Cording the right people who may have positions that will become open.

C: Right, but the stability to be able to wait on taking – like changing jobs because in Silicon Valley at least at the time I was there, raises were like 3%. If you stayed at a company and 30% if you change companies.

K: So, I find this look on Valley to be interesting because for me I feel like black men in tech don’t get paid as much as white men in tech.

C: Yes.

K: But when it comes to claim the tech ladder, they have the same struggle. Because in Silicon Valley they really do value 20 years’ experience, certain education levels and it’s really just a level playing field. Once you reach those certain things, it tends to level out. But most people to find they have to change companies in order to get a promotion.

C: Yeah. In March of 1996

K: Oh my gosh, you are trying so hard. To age.

C: I was working as a programmer.

K: Oh my god, you’re so old.

C: Yes. Thank you.

K: (laughs)

C: That’s not the point.

K: Yes, it was when you year drop, that’s the point. To age yourself. Grey beard.

C: The point is that there are a lot of tech companies asking for five years of Java experience.

K: Yeah.

C: And Java came out in February of 1996, so literally the only people in the entire world could possibly have five years of Java experience with the people who wrote it.

K: And you knew them.

C: Yes, not all of them, but some of them.

K: Yeah. You know all the big-time techies.

C: Yes. But I.

K: But it didn’t help.

C: No. But I find that the tech world is often like that. They just kind of decided five years as a reasonable doubt of experience and then the technology name, even without checking to see if it’s existed for that long.

K: Yeah.

C: And so, every job is a bit of bluster. Every job is a bit of, yeah, I could totally do this, even if it doesn’t look like it on my resume.

K: I know that when I was trying to get out of waitress, sing calling myself a tabletop technician, I was actually able to switch jobs with that line and I described everything that waitresses do, and I never said the word waitress and I got a job from that.

C: Yes.

K: And I was like wow. I have no respect for you.

C: (laughs)

K: And I find that that’s what makes me a horrible employee, because something will happen in the interview process that will make me lose all respect for them.

C: And I’m guessing they knew you were a waitress. And they just admired your ability to work around that.

K: No, they had no clue I was talking about waitressing.

C: Ok, I would have lost respect for him too, sorry.

K: Yeah, they had absolutely no clue. I got a job. I was completely not trading for completely to not have the education for did not allow us doing but made that point.

C: Was this when you were a financier?

K: Yeah, this was when I was working in finance. Yeah. And then also interesting, I was working in finance and then working in sex work.

C: (laughs)

K: Like finance was so horrible that sex work was better. And it paid better. And, like, getting hit on at the office as a woman is so uncomfortable. Getting it on in the office. As someone who identifies as an agendered lesbian by cis gendered straight men and being told like really inappropriate jokes about what I need to straighten me out. That kind of stuff went on.

C: Right.

K: How old I am? And if you report it, you could technically report it to HR. And I was like, “you know what?” I could totally just fuck dude, get him to female a month’s worth of salary. Get him all strung out on me and then have him pay me to listen to this.

C: Mhm.

K: And then within a month I’ll be domming him, and we wouldn’t even be having sex.

C: But he would still be paying you.

K: But he’d still be paying me. He’d be paying me more.

C: (laughs)

K: So why am I still doing this? What is the point of this? And that’s how I get in every job. So, at what point did you get to the point of “why am I even doing this” and switch jobs?

C: Usually when I was being asked to do something that was outside of my ability to do for reasons beyond my control. Because usually I’m pretty good at doing whatever I’m supposed to be doing. And the Peter Principle says that people are promoted to their level of incompetence. Like if you’re good at your job, you get promoted and that keeps going until you’re not good at your job, so you don’t get promoted. Which means that people get promoted until they’re incompetent. But for me, once I felt like I knew everything, I bought a place and how to do it. I was ready to move on. Because I would get intellectually restless. But they would have such high expectations, so they would be like “Can’t you just learn to bodysurf and quote? You’ve been surfing the web. Body surfing is just a little bit different. It’s still surfing.” They are nothing the same: one is a metaphor, and the other is literal. They have nothing to do with each other. Why would I have that skill? And then I would move.

K: Ok. And… when you left the United States, and we came to Japan, you climbed several different ladders. You claimed the academia letter, which we’ve talked about.

C: Yeah.

K: But then you got into sort of like a sidebar of academia, I think, with the scientific editing. What was it like climbing the corporate ladder in a Japanese company owned by somebody from the U.K.? Because that culture mix is so weird.

C: Yeah. I felt like it was… The corporate ladder there was very much a… ramp. And people were just kind of like walk up it. And then occasionally people would go around and shove everybody off it. The corporate ladder in Japan is so… sticking and carrot situation that like you should work 70 hours. You should be notice so that 30 years from now you wouldn’t have to be working 70 hours.

K: Yeah.

C: No, thank you. So, I… was strict mostly about my hours. I’m only going to work certain hours. I’ll work a little bit over that most times, but not the amount that other people would.

K: Well, and I found that, since we’ve been married – and I wasn’t married to you when you’re working in tech.

C: Right.

K: But, for the Japanese company, there was a time that you were getting phone calls at midnight and working from midnight until 4:00 AM and then being expected to work at 9:30 or 9:00 o’clock. And do that 8 hours. And then getting calls again, and that happened for two consecutive weeks, and I was like no this is not ok. This is not happening. And there’s nothing anybody can promise you that is worth that.

C: Yeah. We’re not going to have a “karoshi” situation here. Which is death by overwork.

K: Yeah.

C: With Japan now only allows something like 100 hours of overtime a month without complaining.

K: Yeah, and without any compensation.

C: Yes.

K: And without any recognition. What really stopped it here was when I was like, look, there’s this talk on how to do everything they’re telling you they can’t do for you that they promised to do for you. Go to the talk and go to dinner afterwards and listen to them justify how everything they’ve just heard is not valid.

C: Yes.

K: To get you to understand that they weren’t going to do that, whether they were lying and saying they were going to do. Which, there is a reason why we never named his former company.

C: Yeah.

K: And that’s because I don’t really…

C: it was like, “we’re going to start this venture and it will be a huge hassle. And a large lot of paperwork to give you a piece of the venture, and it’s not really worth anything anyway.” Six months later, “Well, I would give you a piece of this venture, but it’s worth so much it would be a huge hassle to do that and all kinds of tax problems and we should have done this six months ago.”

K: And then they went and started that venture with someone else.

C: Yes.

K: Someone else who is not honest and was fooling them. And then didn’t have the position necessary in a very short amount of time to actually carry out that venture, whereas if they had stuck with the you, the venture would have come to fruition. And so, the whole. They started a whole side company and everything, and I have to admit that I still feel some bitterness about the way that was handled.

C: Mhm.

K: So, that’s why we don’t say the former company that you worked with is because I felt… There was a point in time when we were becoming really good friends with the owner and their spouses, and then – for me, the friendship ends because I can’t tolerate anybody lying to you manipulating you or belittling you, taking advantage of you, or anything negative towards you. I really can’t tolerate at all. In the least. And it makes me livid. And, after the retreat, where the same promises and lies are made… It was just like “why are you persisting in this lie?” And there was a financial cap where they were like you will never make this amount of money which I won’t say because I’m not trying to drag them or expose their money because in case you guys figure out who we’re talking about. But that was just like you’re making all these promises, but you already said you can’t do any of them.

C: Yes.

K: You already said that they were against – you went so far as to say that they were illegal for you, which it’s not.

C: (laughs) No. But

K: And that was like a huge lie. And then acting like the accountant for your company gets to dictate what you do and don’t. OK, your account for to a certain extent does, but your accountant can’t advise you on, you know, who you give shares in your company too. And if you don’t have shares or percentage of your company to give is easy: just to offer that.

C: Yes. And I think

K: that was my problem because we had said – we had never asked for that.

C: And that happened to me in Silicon Valley, too.

K: Yeah.

C: Work in small companies, they would be like, “We were gonna give you a share. We’re going to give everybody a share shares, shares, shares for everybody.” and then six months later, “is there shares everybody?” “Oh yeah, yeah yeah.” And one company I checked back and 10 years later and were still not giving anybody shares and were still saying they were going to.

K: Yeah, because everybody is pre IPO. I’m pre IPO.

C: Right? I always laughed about that when I was.

K: (laughs)

C: When I would go to recruiting fairs like on the hiring sites, and other companies were saying “we are pre IPO.” All that means is that you’re not public yet. Do you have any plans for an IPO? “We can’t discuss that. But we’re pre IPO.”

K: I’m pre IPO. And we have to sign in NDA about the fact that I am pre IPO. And that one day I may be public.

C: (laughs)

K: And we can talk about that, and we’ll give you… something if you sign on with us. Is literally how it goes down in Silicon Valley sometimes.

C: Yes.

K: It’s just like what are you even saying at this point?

C: And they don’t like if you know what the somethings are.

K: Yeah.

C: Are you giving me ISO’s or nonquals? What’s the book value?

K: (laughs) Explain to the folks who aren’t techies because we’re just using all these words. So pre IPO is.

C: IPO is initial public offering. That’s when a company’s shares are sold in the stock market, or at least a percentage of those shows. And so, if people have shares because of stock options, then they can often make money. Not necessarily, but often they can make money off about. And you could be – can become rich off of that if you’re in the right company and have enough stock. There are two kinds of stock that people get. One is called ISOs or incentive stock options, and they are treated very favorably in tax law. And then the other kind is called nonquals which is non-qualified, which means that you didn’t qualify for an incentive stock option and those are treated much less favorably. You make a lot less money for the same other deals about it.

K: Yeah.

C: And you have to work a certain amount to vest those, which means that you don’t have the right to actually make use of those agreements for a certain amount of time, usually four years in California.

K: Yeah, and we had a very dear friend that was chopping off the years on the calendar like they were doing prison time.

C: They had written the computer program to tell them how long they had left before they could quit fully vested.

K: Yes.

C: Like down to the second.

K: The time was doing them.

C: Yes.

K: When they quit afterwards, they lost wages, they changed – they did a 180 on their lifestyle.

C: Yes.

K: They were eating healthy. They moved out of the states. We had two friends, one who moved out and moved back and

C: Both of them moved back actually.

K: Both of them moved back to California?

C: Yeah.

K: Wow. San Francisco?

C: One north, one south.

K: Really?

C: Yeah.

K: Wow. Okay. I don’t keep up with his friends, obviously.

C: They both moved to tax-free states. Sold most of their stock and then moved back to California.

K: So, one in southern Cal.

C: Yeah. And one in northern.

K: So, is the tall one in Southern Cal? Tall one with a boat.

C: Northern.

K: Okay. Because I thought that all of the vote was in Northern Cal.

C: Yeah.

K: So – ah, Southern Cal is not that far from where they were.

C: Yeah.

K: But I’m so happy they’re happy kind of thing.

C: Yes.

K: Yeah. They vested, he didn’t fully vest, partially vested, and then bought out.

C: Yes.

K: And then I met you shortly after that.

C: That’s right.

K: And so, then the first time I really knew you employed was here in Japan. And you’re just such a different person, and you had always said that you could have worked better if your first wife had been supportive, And I always agreed with that. But I had no idea how ambitious and driven and… how much hostility that ambition and drive causes. And I find that there is less hostility in the Australian company than there was in the Japanese company because the Japanese structure is very rigid.

C: Yeah, and people are quite resentful like “How dare you try to work hard to work your way up? Wait your turn.”

K: Yeah. It was very much wait your turn. It was very seniority based, and that’s just the way.

C: Well, wage based too, so, I was paid more than other people who had come in earlier because I’m older, not because I had done anything more or because I had a higher education or anything. Just because I was older.

K: Because you’re running out of time.

C: Right, exactly.

K: Yeah. And after

C: I’m glad you agree, I’m old.

K: In Japan years. In Japan years.

C: (laughs)

K: So, there is a rumor that in Japan after a certain age, you can’t company hop. But there’s no consultant and all those things don’t exist in Japan. That’s not true. Those do exist, it’s just not our lifestyle. And so, to talk about them, I feel like we don’t have the necessary information. Y’all know we don’t Google. (laughs)

C: Yeah, well I went when I was looking for different work, I went to Recruit Agent.

K: Yeah.

C: Who specializes in tenshoku changes. Tenshoku means career change.

K: Yeah.

C: Which doesn’t mean changing careers, it just means changing jobs.

K: Yeah, and they have the midcareer change job fairs, which I always turned, when I was a therapist, I always turn my clients onto them. They’re like “I’m old, I can’t get a job an” and I’m like this job fair – literally in every metropolitan city in Japan has job fairs directed at people who are 40 and older an wanting to change careers.

C: Yes.

K: And… it’s so weird to me that when Japanese and non-Japanese nationals alike would be like “what are you talking about” and I’d have to bring out – I was going to say printo because we’re here in Japan. It’s an interesting thing in Japan. If you print something out and hand it to a Japanese person, it has so much more meaning than anything you could say.

C: Oh, yeah.

K: and the same thing happens to foreign nationals who have been here for a while because if you have a printer that says it, like, come on it’s printer official.

C: Yeah, I wasn’t going to hire you, but you brought a letter that says I have to.

K: (laughs) Yeah, it’s very that. Very that. So, I would always have the job fairs printed out and ready for them. And show then. Here’s an official logo at, and they’d be like, “wait. I know this company. I know that company. Okay, this is a real thing.” And I was like yes, why would I con you on this? Because they are obviously doing well enough to be my clients, So I just wanted them to be happier.

C: Yeah.

K: And it was all is interesting to me that, even after they knew about this, they wouldn’t take advantage of it because they were so, their mindset was that – “I’m so close to a promotion at my job that I’m going to stick it out.” Even though years and years have gone by.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m like, “girl.”

C: I think that’s the same thing like I ended up in a situation where I had two different titles.

K: Yes.

C: Like, oh if I’m talking to anybody outside of the company. I’m a vice president, but inside the company I hope that’s not my title.

K: Yes.

C: This doesn’t work for me.

K: Yeah, and I would have plans in that situation, and I’m like they’re taking advantage of you. They’re lying to you. If you want the mobility, you can say look at this thing that I did with this title, and say that you had a split title, which is a common thing in Japan, and you can get that a promotion at another company to get the higher title. Which is not something you can do in non-Japanese companies like in the Australian company, they want to know what did you do.

C: Yes.

K: What was your official title? About this word title thing, they were like, “I don’t know what you’re talking about, dude.”

C: Mhm.

K: How’s it been climbing the corporate ladder in Australian company? We don’t have to go into the details of where you started and where you’re at now.

C: Well, I do think it’s interesting that the internal recruiter spent time working as a recruiter in Japan, so they were familiar with the Japanese employment system. So, that made the conversation easier

K: Yeah, but it still didn’t matter to everybody else in the company.

C: No, I didn’t. It’s just been like go to work and do my job well, and then when things come up and commas say, “hey I’m interested.”

K: Really? You’re going to pretend it’s not casual.

C: I am

K: Are you worried that people from work listen to the cast?

C: No, I am not. And I am never casual about work.

K: No, you are not.

C: I am intense about work.

K: Because we’ve spent hours and hours discussing the company.

C: Yes. I’m intense about work. I am strategic about work, and I feel like I give good value.

K: Yes, it’s been described as a rampage.

C: Yes, positively, that was intended to be a compliment and give good value, I expect good value.

K: Sorry, I just blew into the mic. There was a bug buzzing around. There’s going to be so many sound issues, sorry.

(laughter)

K: I apologize every week for it.

C: You do.

K: Like, so – here’s the thing is I am sorry about it, but there’s nothing I can do about it. It is the sweltering summertime in Japan.

C: I think our sound issues have gotten better over time.

K: And there’s these little bugs flying around my face.

C: Yeah, and that’s no good.

K: Yeah. Because I can’t have my one fan on me that blows really hard and keeps everything away from me.

C: They are just trying to climb their corporate ladder. They gotta buzz in your face a certain amount of time.

K: I’m gonna whine about the heat. It is so hot today.

C: It really is.

K: And I’m just sticky, and I don’t have my fan on. So, I am working on sound quality, but we do have our a.c. on.

C: Yeah.

K: So… when someone says you’re doing a rampage through the company, how do you view that as positive? Because I don’t like that word. It feels so violent and aggressive.

C: I think that most companies… accumulate certain kinds of what, in my industry, is called technical debt.

K: What?

C: In what I do, it’s called technical debt.

K: Okay. What do you do?

C: I do data.

K: (laughs)

C: I do a lot of things with it. I’m a data manager, so I do compliance, I do analytics, I do forecasting. I do reporting. I do some engineering work.

K: Yeah.

C: I do a lot.

K: Yes, you do the most.

C: Thank you. Because I am the most.

K: You are. You’re super extra.

C: So, technical debt is when you do something the wrong way to get it done.

K: Yeah.

C: And that means that, later, you’re gonna have to pay that day, and you’re’ gonna have to pay interest on it until you… do it the right way. So, my rampage husband to go through and try and to pay technical debt, but that usually involves, like taking out systems that have been working and rebuilding them so that they work but don’t work in such an expensive way. So, for me, rampaging is like… problems, be scared. Like problems need to worry.

K: Yeah, and for you a problem is not being promoted on the schedule that you come up with when you begin working the job and so what happens is because I have expertise in psychology and I’m a really good. So, you can tell me about someone you know and through your perception of them, based on my knowledge of you, I can give you accurate advice on how to cope with that person and how to deal with that person and Chad takes wholesale advantage of this.

C: Absolutely.

K: Yeah, which I think is a good thing.

C: Yeah. It’s a good thing for everybody. Because I never want to feel parasitic like my time. Managing at McDonald’s taught me that certain

K: Oh my god, no you did not.

C: (laughs) Yes, I did.

K: Oh my god, I’m not having it. I told you the McDonald’s stuff – I’m not having it. So, wait before you all feel sorry for Chad, we have been married for 20 years, and there’s not been a year that has gone by that he has not talked about the Royal Fork and McDonald’s.

C: Wow, you remember the name.

K: Right? And you know, I don’t remember the name of anything, so you know that you have talked about it a lot.

C: Okay. Even though there are like several jobs between those.

K: Oh my gosh, you’re so dramatic. You are so dramatic.

C: Yes, I’m very dramatic.

K: Because that I’m at the royal fork, he’s super dramatic about because all the people are gross and doing disgusting things. And then the time at McDonald’s, you could have gone to McDonald U.

C: Thank you. No, it was at the Hamburger College.

K: (laughs) Oh my god, I don’t know why you are still pining over the Hamburger College.

C: I am not pining over it; I’m just saying that I learned certain people.

K: Are you upset because it’s a certificate you’ll never get now, like you can ever – because you have a PhD.

C: I do have a PhD.

K: I wouldn’t go for the full MBA, but you have an MBA certificate.

C: I have a postgraduate certificate of Education in Business Management.

K: Yes, and then you just got like a Google certificate.

C: Yes, I am a Google Cloud professional certified data engineer.

K: And there is another certificate you got like three certificates.

C: I am an IBM certified data scientist, and I am a certified data management practitioner at the master level from the Gamma international, which is an international organization of data professionals.

K: And what’s your next certificate that you’re going to go for?

C: My next certificate. I want to be certifiable.

K: (laughs) So this is part of a corporate claim is that you do continuing education.

C: Yeah, it is, and some people say “well I don’t really care about those” but when I get them, their impressed. So, I do think you care about them.

K: (laughs) I think they don’t care to ever be in a situation to have to do them.

C: Yeah, I think so.

K: Because I would not enjoy I percent enjoy certifications, so that’s one thing- because I haven’t for sure closed my practice. I am taking a year off from it. And I don’t have to do any certifications because I closed my practice if I wanted to be in good standing with the American Psychological Association, which I need to be because Americans are like

C: “Are you in good standing?”

K: “If I want to punish you, how can I do it?” so riddle me this sweetie. I’m in good standing with the Japanese Psychological Association. What is the American Psychological Association going to do to me exactly?

C: They’re going to condone you torturing people.

K: Yeah, they can’t – it’s just so annoying. So, I would have to do continuing education and do certifications which I absolutely hate doing.

C: See, I don’t like that kind of thing. The last time I did that kind of thing was my bachelors where I had to show up a certain amount, so all of my other ones had been accomplishment specific things.

K: Yeah.

C: And I like that format like pass a specific test or write a specific thing or whatever. So, I like that format more than I like “show up.”

K: Mm. So, something I’m really enjoying is cinnabar moth is really fulfilling for me, and being the head of marketing and acquisitions has been really fulfilling for me. And I don’t know. I’m starting to get into it.

C: And I feel like you’re building a ladder beneath you.

K: Yeah, I do. I am.

C: Because you don’t have to climb the ladder because you own it.

K: Correct.

C: But I feel like you’re building a lot of beneath you saying “if you.

K: And we already have an amazing team, and so we have multiple different teams because I like to segregate everything. As I was informed, someone was like.

C: (laughs)

K: So, someone was pitching a book to me, and we have a majority black owned business because the majority of the owners are black. It makes the majority Black owned business.

C: And majority of the ownership, too.

K: Yeah, and the majority of ownership. And so, I’m black and I’m a member of the LGBTQIA+ community, and I’m disabled. and the majority of people who work for us are black, indigenous people of color. One of those things.

C: Axis.

K: Yeah. And most of them are disabled. And most of them are members of the LGBTQIA + community. So, this person has asked me to read the book and publish it and was also telling me that I should take Black owned business off of the description of the business, because that segregating myself. And I was like “No, I’m American. So, what I’m saying is that as a black person and an American I want to show other black people that you can be successful and be a successful black entrepreneur and have black excellence because it’s not celebrated in the mainstream so. I’m celebrating it.” and I explained all of that to them. And they were like “No, you’re just, you’re segregationist.” “I don’t think we’re the right press for you.”

C: Yeah, I think I’m gonna segregate myself from you now.

K: Yeah, I wish you all the best. I still wish them all the best, but they don’t get American culture. Here’s the thing. They weren’t American and they weren’t black. And they weren’t white either. They were a person of color. They were trying to tell me what my experiences as a black business owner.

C: Mhm.

K: So, I feel like I’m creating upward mobility. An opportunity for people who come on early in the business in terms of giving them preferential treatment and in terms of starting people at one rate and giving them another. So, people that come in, like our narrators, their rate is their rate. Our narrators get – our narrators get paid well, they get paid competitively, and that is awesome. They don’t need upward mobility that already at the top. And what they’re doing, and that’s beautiful and we love them. Enjoy them. Artists are working their way up to what is the average of what we pay. And are proofreaders there already getting like top top notch.

C: Yeah.

K: Our proofreaders and editors and all of that. So, I think we treat our team pretty good, and our acquisitions team is really confusing because sometimes are part of it and sometimes you’re not.

C: I feel like if it’s a book that’s kind of in my wheelhouse as far as the way that I write, you ask my opinion about it.

K: Yeah, I do. And if I love something, but it means like you to edit it, then I’m like “babe I love this, and this is why can you please edit it?”

C: Yeah “can you please add it because I can’t trust any of the other editorial team to apply changes sensitively consistently, all of that.”

K: Yeah, to my taste, I think would be most accurate.

C: Yes.

K: Because you edit to my taste just deliciously.

C: I do.

K: Answer, our company structure is vague on purpose because authors will get pissed and dox people. Which is wild.

C: Well, you’ve always preferred that kind of company structure. You have a couple of people that always work for you.

K: The face, yeah, I like front of the house and back of the house. And I heard people that don’t want to be in front of the house.

C: Yeah, and you like to hire people on a piece meal basis who also worked for other people, so they get paid fairly, but they don’t work for us 100% of the time.

K: Yeah. There’s a handful of people that work for us, 100% of the time.

C: Yeah.

K: But majority do not. And so those are the ones that are on our talent page. They don’t work for us all the time, but they’re on our talent page.

C: They’re on a talent page that other people can hire them to. Like if you want to be nice to our people, go to our talent page and hire them.

K: Yeah, so the reason that this is relevant is because I’m at the top of my corporate ladder, every time, but I don’t pull up the ladder behind me.

C: That’s why I’m saying you build a ladder.

K: I actually look for talent and seek out talent, and I will admit that I have a bias. I like working with- I like working with people who are part of the LGBTQIA + community. I like working with people of color, and I like watching with neurodivergent people. I really enjoy neurodivergence.

C: Well, you yourself are.

K: Specifically autism. I love being in the company of autistic people.

C: And you yourself are neurodivergent. As a person with dyslexia.

K: Yeah, I do. So, for me… I don’t climb the corporate ladder. I make the corporate ladder. (laughs)

C: Yes, you do. And for that you just need a lot of sticks and a lot of nails.

K: (laughs) Yeah, because I had my own- I had several businesses in the United States.

C: Yes.

K: And then I had my own practice. And then, here in Japan, you know I had my own practice.

C: Yeah.

K: And I’m doing cinnabar mouth and, who knows, I might be back doing my own practice. And with my practice I helped a lot of other people start practices as well.

C: Yes.

K: Which maybe is current, but I talked before about… education and the market and all of that.

C: They’re not for everybody, and that kind of thing, so that was actually really helpful when you had to start not seeing clients because those clients who needed somebody quickly. It’s much healthier ecosystem than when you first started doing therapy.

K: Yeah. So, looking – oh my goodness. I don’t know if you heard that, but I cracked and creaked because I’m old and I’m older than chat, which we all know. So, I’m super proud of myself today because I know what that take two is about. Before we do the take two, I have to give a shout out to all the Musick Notes. All of our beautiful lovely Musick Notes. So, our top three countries which is really really exciting is the United States, Japan, and Spain. So, I’m super excited about Spain because we have a surge in the Spanish market, and I hope that that continues to happen. And we have another country, but we protect the identity of Puddin because we – they’re our little private pudding pop. So, I guess that is a time when Puddin’s cold. When they’re a pop.

C: Yup.

K: So, they’re either warm, creamy pudding or a cold pudding pop. (laughs)

C: I think you’re overheated. I think you need to eat some ice.

K: So, what I’m getting at is that, overall, generally, I’m super, super grateful to the over 25 countries that listen to the podcast. The Musick Notes that are global, and each and every listen matters. And y’all are so awesome, and because you listen to regularly and so steadily, we’re usually every week in the top 25 on several different platforms for podcasts about Japan, and that’s pretty cool. And podcasts about living abroad and international life.

C: That is pretty cool.

K: Yeah, so we’re in the top 50% of all podcasts, and we’re in usually the top 20 sometimes will drop every now and then and drop to like the being in the top 50. But I guess sometimes we’re boring.

C: Sometimes, yeah.

K: Yeah, I don’t know, so I’m also super proud of myself because they take two is going to be. Today we’re going to talk about the importance of reading your contract as a writer.

C: Yes. It’s quite important.

K: Yeah, so we hope that you follow us over to the Patreon and check out the take two. Y’all seem to keep enjoying it so we’re going to keep doing it. And for those of you where this is your journey ends this week with us.

(laughter)

K: Wait, thank you for listening and we’ll talk to you next week, bye.

C: Bye.