More about PhD stress for Kisstopher, Chad starting a new job, academic publishing, and some details about Chad’s academic work.

Transcript

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about dealing with the stress of my PhD and PhD feedback.

C: I have not been thinking about my PhD.

K: (laughs) I think you have been kind of, though. I mean because you’re finally working in your field.

C: Yes.

K: And so I think, does that – actually, I don’t know. Interesting question. We’re about to learn something new about Chad. Does working in your field make you think about your PhD more, or does it make your PhD feel more relevant?

C: It makes it feel more relevant because when I was editing full-time, I was still working with the material. It was just kind of like my nose pressed against the glass. So I feel like

K: With one sad tear rolling down your face?

C: Yeah. I feel like I thought about feedback a lot more when I was doing that because I was literally seeing feedback. I was seeing the reviews from peer reviewers and that kind of thing, so I was dealing with other people’s feedback on their work.

K: And you were giving feedback.

C: And I was giving feedback, correct.

K: So, something I was wondering that I didn’t ask – I don’t know why I didn’t ask you this. The five years

C: You were saying it for the podcast.

K: Obviously we save our best stuff for the podcast, man. Saved it for like five years, six years now. Oh my gosh. Seven years? No, six years. I don’t know. Don’t ask me about time. It’s confusing. So, when you were doing editing

C: Seven years.

K: Yeah, it’s really confusing. When you were doing editing, did it make you want to publish?

C: Yes.

K: Really?

C: Yes.

K: Oh, I’m sorry to hear that. Did it make you want to publish non-academic stuff?

C: No, it made me want to publish academic stuff. Sometimes I would edit a paper and I would think “I could do this so much better.”

K: Really?

C: Yeah. But I didn’t have the remit to just rewrite their paper for them. It was just really limited.

K: So did you want to publish your own original stuff?

C: Um, yes. But… in math, it’s easier to publish as an outsider, but it’s still not easy. It still would have meant a lot of time at the university library to make sure I was caught up on all the papers and things.

K: Mhm.

C: So math you get like 80% of papers available through ArXiV, which is open-access pre-prints. But there’s still that 20% to check, so there’s a lot of stuff around publishing that’s different than the stuff around writing. So it made me want to do math. It didn’t so much make me want to do all the other stuff around getting published in peer-reviewed journals.

K: Mm. And, really, sadly in the midst of that time – so you were working on a project, and then one of the project members passed away, and we still feel the loss of that loss deeply.

C: Yes, that’s correct.

K: And I feel like, for me, because your path to publication – to me, felt so involved with their loss that it just… I guess I just left it to you to come to me if you wanted to have those conversations. Rather than introducing that conversation because it was quite a big loss for you.

C: Yeah.

K: And quite the los of a big project, so I feel like it was a loss for the world as well. And so, it’s just a tragedy – and I guess it makes me feel really really sad, still.

C: Yeah.

K: And so I don’t venture there unless I’m feeling quite sturdy, and I don’t think I was feeling quite sturdy. As you can see, I’m still not feeling quite sturdy about that.

C: Yeah. So, there are things – like I have one thing that I could put in the effort to get published as a paper. So I calculated all of the bridge indices for all of the twelve crossing knots. Which is like a long, technical explanation of what exactly that means.

K: Yeah.

C: And so everybody accepts that I calculated the right ones

K: But yo, if you guys want to know what it means, he loves to talk about it. Hit us up on twitter, hit us up on the website. Chad will totally go into it. He has a math – your math website is chadmusick.com or something like that.

C: .wikidot.com yes.

K: Yeah, so we’re not trying to shut it down. We just know most of you all didn’t come here for the math. Sorry, don’t mean to like throw salt in the wounds, babe.

C: Yeah. 

K: I just feel like most of our listeners did not come here for math. (laughs) I don’t know what they come here for. They just listen to our rambles and digressions.

C: Exactly.

K: Okay, sorry, so you were saying that you have a paper you could publish that’s really complex.

C: It – explaining it is really complex, but it’s basically tabulating a bunch of numbers and things, so I have that ready, but it’s not publication ready. It’s just ready to where everybody accepts that it’s correct, and they’re using the results, and it’s on ArXiV as a pre-print, so people just cite the pre-print if they need it.

K: Yeah.

C: So that’s been cited I think in more than one of the papers I actually published. But it doesn’t bring me any career benefits to go through the rigamarole of publishing it, so

K: And that’s what made me think – that’s the other thing that made me think you didn’t want to publish. Because I knew you had something you could publish, and you’d just never done it.

C: Yeah.

K: So did you want to publish, or did you want to have been published?

C: I wanted to write, and that’s a different thing than wanting to publish. 

K: Yeah. So earlier you said you wanted to publish. 

C: Yeah. Working in publishing is really easy to conflate the two

K: Yeah it is.

C: So it’s taking me a while to shift out of that to “okay, I’m not working in publishing anymore.” I don’t have to push the line that writing and publication go hand in hand because they don’t.

K: Mmm.

C: But when your livelihood depends on people publishing, you start to develop the habit of saying they do.

K: So for me, like, a pivotal piece of information that I need for my dissertation, the authors who are prolific in their publication did not bother to publish a main point of their argument when they changed their thinking a little bit. And I’m like “are you kidding me?”

C: Because they presented at a conference.

K: Yeah, but they could have published it as well, so I was like “are you kidding me? You’ve published how many times you brush your friggen teeth in the morning, and this you don’t publish?”

C: So I presented at a conference, and I wrote a paper up, and the journal was like “yeahhh, but your paper – your talk was kind of short, we want you to a bunch of extra research.” And I was like “yeahhh, I’m not going to.” So I can understand

K: But they’ve also written several books. Several books.

C: They have. And I don’t pretend to understand the complexities of each specific field. Like, in math, it’s really accepted to go give a talk about something and then publish exactly that same thing you talked about. In medicine, if you talk about something, you can’t publish it anymore because it’s not new. 

K: In psychology, when you are the creator of something new, you can publish whatever the heck you want about it.

C: Okay, so you’re not saying it, but I’m saying they should have published that officially instead of just presenting it. 

K: Oh, I’m saying it. 

C: Are you?

K: And I’m not calling them out by name because I’m not trying to start any fights because I still

C: Oh okay yeah.

K: I still need their grace. (laughs) I still need their grace and beauty. What I find so interesting is that I’m in touch with these really, really smart people that all have their PhDs and are like the founders of the discipline

C: Oh stop, you’re embarrassing me.

K: Yeah. I’m talking about you. And it’s really awesome to get emails from them and stuff, and that’s really beautiful, gorgeous feedback. And having them unlock papers and release things for me to have access to. That’s all really gorgeous and beautiful.

C: The collegiology that’s supposed to be there.

K: Yeah, it’s really nice that it is. Something that’s more challenging for me is the feedback process. So, just to kind of catch everybody up to where I’m at in my PhD process because I know you’re all hanging on the edge of your seats wondering “but what’s going on with Kisstopher’s PhD?” 

C: I could hardly breathe waiting for it.

K: Right? All the childrends are gagging. Just like clutching pearls, pulling up to the mic – I mean pulling up to the headphone or whatever. What would they be pulling up to?

C: They wouldn’t be pulling up to anything because if they’re using headphones, they’re already in. I guess they could be pulling up to the speaker. To the vitrola. That’s how outdated you sound.

K: (laughs) I didn’t say any of that. That’s you sounding outdated. So any who, what was I even talking about?

C: You were talking about the feedback processes.

K: Okay, so where I’m at in my process. So the reason I’m so dazed and unfocused I just finished sorting and reading over 150 articles, literally. And ruling out which ones will be included, and which ones won’t be included, but still having to read them to make sure they won’t be included. And that’s just so awesome.

C: So you’re talking about journal articles. You’re not talking about grammatic articles. Because I’m like “a, an, and the. How long does it take to read 150 of those?”

K: Yeah, and some articles were as short as 12 pages, and the longest one was 253 pages. Because I also include dissertations. So, those were interesting and fun. And I was completely burnt out and fried. And went straight from after doing all of that to writing my introduction for my chapter 2, which is the literature review, which is why I read all of those articles. The process of after writing my introduction is I sent it to my chair and co-chair for feedback, and then they give me feedback on that part of it while I’m writing a different part of it, and then I send that to them. So, first I send them the outline, then I send them the introduction, then I send them each section for them to give me critique on. So they either tear my heart out and show me my beating heart and then stuff it back in my chest, or they just say “there, there, move along”, and I never know which one it’s going to be. 

C: There’s no in between option? They can’t tear your heart out and how it to you, but not put it back in?

K: They have to put it back in my chest or I’ll die.

C: Oh okay.

K: So that’s what the process feels like for me. It’s not a happy process for me.

C: No. I don’t think it’s a happy process for anybody. I think the process of getting your research feedback from a collaborator – somebody you’re doing it with – is very different from getting formal feedback.

K: Yes. And so, everyone right now who’s not working on their PhD is enjoying the holiday season and enjoying the winter break. And I’m like “yay no client work, I can really dig into some of the feedback that my chair and co-chair have given me. And just write.” It’s like “yay, two weeks of writing for 14 days, every day.” 

C: Yeah.

K: And that’s my life. So, I’m really happy that hopefully next quarter break – next term break – I can just take two weeks off. And not work on my PhD. Because I haven’t taken any time off form my PhD in the past year.

C: Yeah, that

K: And I’m beginning to feel it.

C: That would be nice. That’s not my experience with working on a PhD either. It’s just full-on for the entire time you’re there. But it would be nice to have a couple weeks off.

K: Well and my chair asks every quarter at the end of every quarter “hey do you think maybe this would be a great time to take some time off?” And I’ve been like “not yet.” So, last time, during the break, I actually finished my final residency. Which was significant and profound and happy making. That that’s done. And it clearly puts me in the – a different place. 

C: Yeah.

K: So I’m like okay, now there’s nothing left but the writing. And so that feels really good, but the writing is tough. And I feel like

C: you’re cruising down the highway, but it’s still a long road.

K: Yeah, and so I’m just trying to make it through the next two months, and then I’m going to fall down and take some time off. I’m going to take a week off from work, and I’m going to get a bunch of T.V. shows to just binge-watch. So hey, if you guys have any binge able t.v. shows, probably already watched them, but 

(laughter)

K: Because I consume just mad, crazy amounts of television. I watch about 4 hours of television a day.

C: Yes. You asked me “hey, find me a show.” And I’ll give you a list and you’ll be like “seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it, seen it. Oh wait, I haven’t heard of this one. Oh, nope. Haven’t seen it, don’t want to.” 

K: So, I wish I was into rewatching shows, but I’m not. 

C: Mhm.

K: Because Blood in the Wire. Oh my god, I could do with something really bloody.

C: Wire in the Blood.

K: Wire in the Blood? Is that what it is?

C: Yeah.

K: Okay. Because I could really go with a t.v. show where people are just screaming.

C: Mhm.

K: I want tortured screams. Just tortured screams. Because sometimes I want the world to howl with me, and that’s kind of where my head’s at. Not to bring everybody down during this holiday season, but

C: That wouldn’t necessarily bring down people. We might have werewolves among our listeners.

K: (laughs) And so yeah, there’s nothing that I – I didn’t save anything for myself, and I swish that I had.

C: Mhm.

K: Saved some things to binge-watch, but usually Sunday, I just lay in bed and don’t talk and stare at the t.v.

C: Yeah.

K: And binge-watch. So, like, any good sci-fi shows, probably seen them but go ahead and send them our way. 

(laughter)

K: I could really use a break.

C: Yeah.

K: I’m burnt out. That’s how I feel today. I feel exhausted, mentally and emotionally just completely drained. And like I need a vacation. Like nobody’s business.

C: Ready for this decade to end.

K: Yes. I really am. I really am. And so, I knew that I was feeling burnt out at the end of my residency, so before the residency even began, um, I knew that I was going to need something that was going to rip my chapter 2 from – I think of it as like reaching in and tearing it out of my soul violently in a blood way. And I thought what would motivate me to do that? And so I took a course that is writing chapter 2. That’s forcing me to rip it from my soul because the one thing that I did not do, and I’m kicking myself for it – I was kicking myself for it for like three months – is I hadn’t documented my research process for how I gather articles. And so by taking this course, I have a documented way of how I found all of my articles, and so I can write that page.

C: I find this so interesting because I didn’t have to do any of this because of my field.

K: Yeah. And it’s – I’m not sure that I have to do it. Like, I have to be able to discuss it, but I’m not sure if I have to be able to include it. So having it nice and neatly written down, it allows people to look at it and be like “okay, your research methods for finding articles were sound, and we feel fairly certain that it’s been exhaustive and extensive.” Because I have to answer how I know that my literature review is exhaustive. 

C: Yeah, no, it’s interesting because

K: Because I’m exhausted, motherfuckers, I’m exhausted.

C: Because the previous company that I worked for, we got paid a couple of times to do these kinds of searches and document them.

K: Mhm.

C: So, and I was involved in setting them up, but I never actually went and did the searches. 

K: Okay.

C: Because we had a Japanese staff member go and do that at their university where they could access all of the articles, too, so that it could be done in English and in Japanese. So I’m familiar with the process, but I’ve never done it because math doesn’t require it.

K: So I have a research plan, and I did it, and it’s documented now. And I’m happy to have had that done. And I’m happy that I know myself well enough to know that I needed to be enrolled in a course because I’m like – I will not fail. 

C: Yes. 

K: I will not get an unsatisfactory

C: I will not give you a reason to criticize me. 

K: Yes. Like, if it’s pas or no pass, I’m going to get a super pass. What?

C: (laughs) You’re going to get an express pas. A fast lane. You’re going to go straight to Thunder Mountain.

K: Yes I am. And also, for – my school’s a little bit different in that you have to write your term plan. And I just ran out of gas on writing those. I’m like “I’m reading.” Like all the previous quarter, I was just writing “reading” and every week it was just like “still reading” umm, “still reading.” So.

C: I think that’s one of the things that people who haven’t done online school don’t know is how much extra you have to do because you’re online.

K: Yeah, because they don’t see you.

C: Because I did my master’s online and my doctorate in person. And my doctorate in person, I didn’t have to fill out a plan because I would just go talk to my advisor. 

K: Yeah.

C: Like, the study was harder for the doctorate, but all the stuff around it was significantly harder for my master’s.

K: Yes. 

C: So m ad respect doing school online. It is not easier than doing it in person.

K: No, it’s not.

C: It makes it possible for people who have mobility issues or can’t get out or whatever, but it’s tough.

K: It is. And so like my term plan, I have to write the first five weeks what I think they’re going to be. And then each week, I have to write a reflection non whether or not I achieved those goals. And they become part of my official documentation for what I’ve done each quarter.

C: which kind of takes the place of having lunch. I would just go have lunch once a week.

K: Yes. So, I’m super, super fortunate because they also want a weekly phone call. I hate talking on the phone, and I feel really bad because my chair loves talking on the phone. And she’s been awesome and gracious enough to have me not talk on the phone. Like, talking on the phone makes me so anxious because it’s so unpredictable, and I can’t read intonation as well as I can facial expression.

C: Mmm.

K: And I’m also hard of hearing, so if we do a video chat, I don’t really like those either. And then it’s an awkward time, and it takes me out of my head because if I do it on a day before I go to work, usually I’m doing client prep. And if I do it on a day that I don’t go to work, I’m usually just busy. I’m so mentally busy that I don’t have time for a phone call. And I’m really fortunate that my chair is like “okay, this month – this quarter, you can skip it but next quarter we’re doing it.” 

C: Yeah.

K: So I’m like, hopefully every other quarter type of thing. Because I don’t really have anything to say. I’m reading.

C: Yeah. She has been quite accommodating because you have been making steady progress. Because you can show all of the work you’ve done.

K: Yes. And so having evidence of the work I’ve done and all of that, I think is very fortunate.

C: so that feedback has to go two ways. She gives you feedback, and your co-chair gives you feedback, but you also are giving them feedback on how you’re doing and what you need from them and such. I know it’s not the same level of power – there’s a disparity in that

K: (laughs) It’s completely not the same level of power. I have no power.

C: Yeah.

K: I have none. They have all the power. But I’m very lucky that my chair and co-chair are not egotistical. And they’re – they’re very, very, very professional in their feedback. It’s just, you know.

C: Wow, three verys. That is 

K: Yeah. Because I feel like Erika Badeua 19:24 you know? Just keep in mind I’m an artist, and I’m sensitive about my shit.

C: Oh okay. I, I thought you were going to be like “you’ve got to call Tyrone.” I was going to be like “I don’t even know who that is. Is that your external editor? I thought I was your external editor.”

K: Ew. Just like ew face and everything. Nose curled and just like yuck. I don’t want that on me anywhere. What the hell was that?

C: (laughs) Well, I’m not going to sing it because I don’t want to copyright violate, but I could sing it perfectly. If it weren’t for copyright.

K: What are you trying to say? 

C: I’m trying to say that

K: That you’re a liar and perpetrating frauds?

C: I’m not trying to say that. 

K: Damn, now I have the most massive craving for an apple.

C: (laughs)

K: I have no idea why. Every time we record, I get crazy food cravings. And this episode’s crazy food craving is an apple. I’m about to turn something on that beeps. I don’t even think they can hear the beep.

C: Oh, they’ll hear that beep.

K: I don’t think so. I don’t think so. But you think they will?

C: Yeah. I think people should let us know.

K Yeah, let us know

C: Just tweet us “I heard the beep.”

K: (laughs)

C: “And it opened up my eyes.”

K: (laughs) So, I feel like I haven’t ben as neurotic as I was when I was writing my prospectus. I feel like I’ve been a lot calmer.

C: I do feel like this is a calmer process, and I feel like part of that is the prospectus – your school was changing what they wanted in the prospectus while you were doing it, so now if you had done it like… three months later, it would be a completely different process.

K: Yes.

C: And so I feel like that’s one additional disadvantage of online programs is they try and evolve t hem, and I feel like brick and mortar, when you show up, they try to keep them the same for decades. Like, when I was at Berkeley, it was a big deal you know “we’ve ben around a hundred” I forget what it was at the time – not quite 150 years. Like “why would we change things now? We’re going to it exactly how we’ve always done it.” Which that’s a shame. It’s not exactly how they’ve always done it. They do change with the time, but it’s a lot slower

K: So, you’ve gotten a lot of education post-PhD. 

C: Yes.

K: do you think you’ll do anymore

C: I think I might do more mooks. So, I did a certificate course through Coursera. I might do more of those to pick up specific skills. I don’t feel the need to get any additional… accreditation. I have four certifications. I have like, a bachelor’s, and a master’s, and a PhD and a post-grad certificate in education. At this point I’m feeling like

K: And the MBA thing.

C: Yeah. The post-grad certificate in education. I didn’t finish the MBA because ID didn’t want to do the boring parts, so I got a half-MBA.

K: Okay.

C: I don’t feel like I’m going to want any more formal education, but

K: Because of the feedback system?

C: Yeah. Because of the feedback system, and because of – I just don’t see any value added at this point. But I’ll definitely be doing more self-education. So, and the company I’m working for is very supportive of self-education. And I have a budget, I don’t know exactly how much it is, for if I need to take paid classes or whatever.

K: And for people that do a second PhD, I always like… I always want to get all up in their business. Where’s that money coming from? Like, where’s the money and motivation. Because I’m doing one PhD and out. I am done. Drop the mic and walk away.

C: Okay, speaking of that. There’s this show called 23:10 that’s on Amazon Prime.

K: Ohh, don’t get me started.

C: I don’t know if it’s on Amazon Prime, elsewhere, or if it’s on other episodes. But the first episode, he’s like “I have three PhDs in psychology.”

K: In psychology. In psychology.

C: And my reaction to that was “no, you fucking don’t. You just don’t nobody does.”

K: Okay. No. No. No. That’s just so stupid. What’s he’s saying is just so stupid.

C: I was like so okay, not a single person who worked on this t.v. show had a PhD or even looked into doing one.

K: Not one. Not one. Because as son as you get one PhD, we look at what you’ve done.

C: Yeah. They are so reluctant, so reluctant, to let someone with a PhD into a PhD program.

K: Yup.

C: Like if I wanted to go get a MD. I could maybe do that. But if I wanted to go get a PhD in let’s say statistics, they would tell me no. They would laugh at me. They would be like “you have a PhD in mathematics. We are not going to let you into our program for statistics. Just write some stats papers and everybody will accept that you have the knowledge.”

K: Yeah. It would have been more accurate to say, “I have a PhD in forensic psychology, and I developed this science.”

C: Right. Like for lawyers, they don’t go back for a second JD.

K: Like “I’m the founding father of trial science” or some crap like that.

C: Right. For lawyers, they can’t be like “I have three JDs.” No. There’s a program for LLMs where you can go back for continuing legal education just like continuing medical education. Most fields have continuing education. You don’t go back for the second degree at the same level. Master’s is a little different. You can go back for a second master’s, but PhD, once you know how to research, you know how to research. If you want to switch fields, collaborate on some research in that field, and just gradually move. 

K: That’s good advice.

C: Thank you.

K: Yeah. So, for me, I’m in that chapter two hell. Where I’m writing my lit review, and after I write my lit review I get the joy of writing my methodology section which I am dreading. Oh shit on a shingle. I’m not going to be able to take off the next quarter, or maybe I should take off the next quarter, but I don’t know. Because I have a course that I have to take before I write my methods section. I have to take a course on the method that I’m using. I should do that during

C: While you’re writing up the method.

K: No. I should do that during the term or in between.

C: During the

K: I am snow-blind. I am in a blizzard and snow-blind. IT’s just so overwhelming.

C: During the term. I’m just telling you. 

K: But I feel like I need to ask my chair.

C: You do need to ask your chair.

K: Like, “could I have your permission to pretty please take the next two weeks”

C: Your chair has 

K: “to take two weeks off in between quarters because I am snow-blind.” 

C: Your chair has consistently encouraged you to do so.

K: Yeah. So, I’m always curious: are you all going for PhDs? Like what’s you all’s education path? For me, one of my main passions for getting a PhD is because I’m a former foster child, and there just aren’t enough of us. I’m a former foster child. I’m also African American. Cherokee and Jewish. And so for me

C: Just to clarify, you mean foster children with a PhD. You’re not advocating for t he creation of more foster children.

K: What the hell are you saying?

C: You said, “I’m a former foster child, and there aren’t enough of us.” I think you meant in the PhD process or who have done PhDs.

K: Yes. That’s what I mean. I think our listeners can follow. 

C: Okay.

K: Oh my gosh. 

C: (laughs)

K: Ugh. Ewgh. You see, I am just frazzled today. And Chad just keeps coming. Chad is just like

C: Oh I am full on.

K: Yes, you are full on.

C: Something like 3% of foster children get their bachelor’s degree, so. 

K: Yeah. And I want foster kids to know that they can do it.

C: Yes.

K: I want – which is, you know, in our episode zero, which is now a Patreon exclusive, so you can – for two bucks you can go listen to our episode zero and hear all about that.

C: Okay. For two bucks, you get a month of access. Which if you listen for like three hours a day, you’ll get through all the episodes.

K: (laughs) Because we have like twenty-five episodes archived.

C: Yeah, they’d only have to listen an hour a day to get through

K: I think we only have 15. I think like this week, we’re archiving more, so I don’t know. We’re in the process of trying to figure out what our archival process is going to be.

C: In any case, it’s only like an hour a day to catch up in a month.

K: (laughs)

C: If you’re so cheap that you’re going to cancel after a month. I think if you listen, you’re going to be like “whoa, I need to support these people” 

K: (laughs) You are so ridiculous today. You are so completely ridiculous. And I am so punch-drunk today. I am so just emotionally fraught and drain.

C: Yeah, you’re laughing at my jokes

K: Yes. I always laugh at your jokes. Well, most of them. I laugh at the funny ones. (laughs)

C: That’s what you always say.

K: Yeah. If I don’t laugh, it’s not funny.

C: Yeah. That is such a hurtful phrase.

K: Is it? “If I don’t laugh, it’s not funny”?

C: Yeah. That kind of feedback is very difficult for me.

K: Are you trying to circle us back around?

C: I am trying to circle us back

K: But I have said everything I need to say about the feedback process. It has left me fried and confused.

C: MMM. Okay. 

K: Yeah, that’s all 

(laughter)

K: Real talk. This is (laughs) this is what I’m thinking about. And what I’m thinking is “please just approve my shit.” (laughs)

C: Yeah.

K: Please just let me move on. 

C: I worked really hard on this

K: Just let it be done. Just let it be done.

C: Well I remember how it was with your prospectus. With your prospectus, your first feedback was like “this is terrible, everything you’ve done, how did you even dare, dare send this to us.”

K: Yes.

C: And then the second draft was like “this is terrible but maybe a little bit better.” And then the third draft was like “wow, you’re a wonderful writer.”

K: Perfect.

(laughter)

C: One of these things is not like the other. So I know that your writing process can be kind of opaque to other people. Like, how do you

K: (laughs) Kind of? My writing process is completely opaque.

C: How do you take on feedback?

K: People cannot figure out my thinking or my reasoning. It’s a mystery to people. Like even as their therapist, my reasoning and how I get to someplace, I always make sure to unpack it for them. And I do hand motions, and I hold up fingers like “this point is one, this point is two, do you see how I get from here to here?” And most times they say, “can you say that again please?”

C: She’s signaling to me that somebody just made a field goal.

K: What are you saying?

C: You do the one with one hand, and the two with the two, and then you’re doing the referee signal for field goal.

K: What are you talking about?

C: Football. I’m talking about American football.

K: Why aren’t you talking about how we can’t have the fan on. 

C: We can’t have the fan on because it makes too much

K: And I’m still roasting. 

C: You’re still roasting?

K: In December, it’s still roasting hot.

C: We have a well-insulated apartment.

K: We do, and you’re just like – heat is just wafting off of your sexiness.

C: I am. I am a fire god.

K: (laughs) The fire god of sex. I don’t know if that makes sense. It doesn’t need to. I need to stop playing with my cords.

C: You do need to stop playing with your cords. 

K: It’s probably just going to be like “blah blargh blagh blagh waah blagh”

C: The whole issue is probably static. We’ll do our best to remove the static.

K: (laughs) I think I promise almost every episode to not have a lot of static. 

C: No, it’s only like every fifth episode.

K: It’s only like every fifth episode? I’ve stopped doing it every episode?

C: Yeah. 

K: I don’t know why right now I’m doing like a really bad robot.

C: You are.

(laughter)

K: So, I think we need to talk a little bit about the New Year. And I think this would be a good time for us to has out the archival plan. Because we’re going to start archiving more regularly at regular intervals in 2020. And how Patreon’s going to work and such, just so that the listeners understand what we’re doing and what our thinking is and why we’re doing it. Because I don’t want anybody to feel punished. And I don’t want to price people out of their ability to listen to the podcast. But we are going to – every two or three months I think. Or was it every three months? Did you want to do it on a quarterly basis?

C: What I want to do is – I want to do it on a monthly basis, but there’ll always be at least two months available. So if somebody out there is listening, and you haven’t had time to listen for a month, you can still catch up. So each month, I intend to archive two months back.

K: Three months ago.

C: Yeah. Three months ago.

K: So, say like the months. So like, January would be archived at the end of March.

C: Correct. Because at the end of March, you’d still have February and March available, but you wouldn’t have February available after the end of March.

K: And at the end of April, you wouldn’t have February available.

C: Correct. 

K: And so we’re doing a big archi- we’re getting ready to do a big archive now.

C: Right.

K: and when something’s archived, that means it becomes a Patreon-exclusive episode, and at the end – our Patreon levels start at two dollars. And so for two dollars, you can get access to all of the archived materials.

C: Right. And for most of you who use podcatchers, you won’t see any difference because most of them don’t display all historical episodes. They only display eight or ten or so.

K: Yeah. Because I think like iTunes is like that.

C: Yeah. So you can always go to our website and see every episode that we have available not through Patreon. But if you’ve been keeping up, you won’t see any change. If you only listen once a month, you’ll still be able to listen to all of them. But if you want to listen to older stuff, or if you just want to be nice, you can go to Patreon and subscribe and get access to every episode from zero on.

K: And then we also have take twos. The take twos used to be written, but we just don’t have as much time as we used to. So now we’re doing like a behind the scenes conversation in our take twos where ewe talk about how it felt to record the episode and any thoughts we didn’t share during the episode. 

C: Right.

K: And that’s our take twos. And it’s Chad’s perspective on it and my perspective on it. And we’re gearing up – part of the reason why we’re making these changes is we’re trying to find more time so we can record a second podcast called Disables is not Broken to talk about the various things we have going on with disability and how disability impacts our lives and, for that, we might bring on special guests every now and then to talk about different aspects of it. And have guest stuff. So we’re trying to make room to add a podcast in 2020. But we don’t have a lunch date yet on that. We’re getting art together and all of that kind of stuff.

C: don’t all that planning. And we’re two working, disabled people, and we have lots of friends.

K: And someone who’s doing their PhD, so. 

C: Yeah. And we have lots of friends who are working or in education or unable to work who are disabled, so we can get different perspectives on that.

K: So we’re still working out the different topics and our approach and the artwork and all of that. And that will be homed – that will be housed on the Musicks in Japan website. And it’ll have its on Facebook page just like the Musicks in Japan do. And the reason why we’re talking about it on this episode is just to loop you guys in and let you know what’s to come and why we’re making changes. Because we don’t want anybody to feel hurt or left out or priced out of being able to enjoy the podcast. Because that’s not what we’re about.

C: Yeah. As long as you listen more often than every six weeks, you can keep up. 

K: (laughs)So if you’re not listening more often than every six weeks, Chad’s saying straight up “get to listening.” 

C: Right?

K: So I think we’re going to do – I’m not sure if we’re doing a big archive in January. It depends on when I do the – I like to do an announcement on twitter and give everybody about thirty days. It might be at the end of January. Sorry guys, we can’t have firm days, but again it depends on my energy level and when I can get those

C: No, we’ve ben announcing it. We started announcing it at the end of October. I think we’re going to do it.

K: You think we’re going to do it?

C: It’s straightforward for me. I know how to do it because I’ve done it before.

K: Okay. So we’re doing the big archival at the end of January.

C: Beginning of January.

K: Beginning of January. So, beginning of January, we’re doing the big archive, and then we’ll start doing it every three months then?

C: Correct. So November and December will still be available all throughout January, and then in February, November will be archived. 

K: Yeah. So we’re going to put a post on our Facebook page explaining it written out, so that you guys can refer to it there. Visit our Facebook page or you can send us questions about it on the website, or you can tweet at us if you have any questions about how it’s going to work. I don’t know if I did a good job explaining it. I don’t think I did a good job at all.

C: Yeah.

K: I think Chad did a god job explaining.

C: Call us, send us a telegram.

K: (laughs) No. We just discussed how I don’t like talking on the phone. Don’t call.

C: They don’t have our number.

K: But even if they did, don’t’ call.

C: Even if they did, don’t call.

K: And I don’t know what it is with me being

C: Operators are not standing by.

K: Operator. Oh, don’t’ sing anymore because we don’t want to get copyright. But we’re not on YouTube, so we don’t get copyright strikes and all that stuff on podcasts do they?

C: But you could still get a complaint. Like the radio

K: A complaint of what?

C: The radio people, the RIEAA or whatever, can come after you

K: (laughs) The radio people?

C: “You sang this song” yeah because YouTube, they have the agreement with all the different labels. Which is why you can post music. Because YouTube already pays a licensing fee.

K: What are you talking about?

C: I’m talking about if you post a popular song

K: Then how come people are getting copyright claimed? 

C: Because they’re not using things that are copyrighted by the big labels that YouTube has agreements with. So let’s say you post an Adele song in your video

K: Mhm.

C: You can’t monetize that video. But YouTube has an agreement with Adele’s recording label to where Adele gets a little bit of money every time that video’s played if it’s Adele’s music in it.

K: Mhm.

C: What people are doing copyright strikes on is people commenting on their videos and using parts of their videos because YouTube doesn’t have an agreement where you can just use other people’s stuff. 

K: So if you hear like a fanning sound, that’s me fanning myself because I get something that I call exhaustion fevers. When I’m super tired, I run a fever. Which I think is so weird.

C: Yeah.

K: So like the beeping sound is me checking my temperature over and over again because I want to make sure

C: That you’re not overheating. 

K: Yeah. And I am completely overheating.

C: you are.

K: I’m running like a low temperature because

C: A high temperature, a low fever.

K: What did I say?

C: You said a low temperature. 

K: I have a fever; I can’t be expected to be accurate. (laughs)

C: Oh okay.

K: So I know this episode was a little bit shorter than usual or about average length, I don’t know, but we’re close to 40 minutes n it. And that’s all I have for today.

C: Yeah. So we’ll talk to you soon.

K: Yeah. Bye. Hey, go to our Patreon and check out the take two if you want more. (laughs) Bye.

C: Bye-bye.