Expectations of marriage are quite different between Japan and the United States. Surprisingly different, in ways that make it both easier and harder.

Transcript

K: So, lately I’ve been thinking a lot about being married in Japan versus being married in the United States because it feels like a different bag.

C: So, you’re saying being the state of married, not getting married. Right? Because getting married in Japan is its own thing that we could do a whole a thing about, but we didn’t get married in Japan. 

K: No, we didn’t.

C: We were married when we got here.

K: Yes.

C: But we’ve been married the entire time we’ve been here.

K: Yes, we have been. So, I guess part of it is getting married, too, because we know a lot of people that get married in Japan.

C: Yeah, we do.

K: And it’s so different to me. Like, just being married in Japan versus being married in the United States. Because one being married in the United States, being from California, I get half your stuff, man, just boom. Automatic fifty-fifty. But in Japan, I get nothing.

C: See, that’s a misconception about California. You get half the stuff; you get half of the community property. But the community property doesn’t include anything that the people come into the marriage with.

K: Right.

C: So, anything you had before the marriage is yours regardless of a fifty-fifty, unless you end up mixing it, and there’s where it gets complicated.

K: Yeah. But in Japan, it’s really hard to get anything. But also, in Japan, if you wanted to divorce me, I could just say no.

C: Mhmm.

K: And then you couldn’t divorce me. It’d be really, really hard for you to divorce me. 

C: Well, I think that’s what no-fault divorce laws in the U.S. were about. 

K: Yeah. It’s to allow people to get divorced really easily, I think.

C: Yeah.

K: So, for me, I don’t know. Marriage feels less secure in Japan than it did in the United States. I don’t feel protected by being married. But in the United States, I don’t know why, but I felt protected by being married. 

C: That’s odd. So, I read a lot about marriage customs in feudal Japan.

K: Uh-huh.

C: Not like futile, but feudal.

K: Yeah. Olden days.

C: Yeah. When I was reading the Tale of Genji because I did a class in my undergraduate on Japanese drama.

K: Yeah.

C: So, I read the Tale of Genji. And marriage was a lot less serious. It wasn’t a formal thing. Like, a guy could have multiple wives because his “wives” were just all the women he was supporting. But those “wives” were under no obligation to have only one husband. 

K: So, women could have multiple husbands

C: Men could have multiple wives, but it wasn’t really a formally recognized thing. 

K: It was just like… all the men giving me money, I call them husband. (laughs)

C: And then you know, you’d go and live with the woman’s parents if you wanted to show it was a serious relationship, you’re having kids with them, you’re raising a family with them.

K: So, wait. So… just giving money is enough, or does it have to be sex involved?

C: I don’t know because it didn’t bring a lot of rights or obligations.

K: So, but I think there would have to be sex involved. It can’t just be anybody who gives you money. Anybody who pays your bills.

C: Okay, yeah. That’d make it Colorado. I have friends in Colorado who every time I talk to them remind me “we are not married even though we live together and have for thirty years.” Because in Colorado, if you don’t tell people you’re not married, you’re married under common law.

K: Yeah. 

C: They’re like “we are not married under common law.”

K: Yeah, neither are we. We’re like married. Under law.

C: Yeah, we’re married formally.

K: So, for me, I don’t know. It just… it’s weird, but I feel less married. I don’t feel like people are into our marriage as much as they were when we were in the United States. Or maybe it’s because we’re older now, and our son is grown, so…

C: Yeah, I think so. I think nobody’s worried if mommy and daddy get a divorce then twenty-five-year-old Rasta’s going to be all broken up about it.

K: He would be. He would be devastated. 

C: He would be devastated, but it wouldn’t be “who gets custody?”

K: Yeah it would be.

C: No, it wouldn’t be. You’d get custody.

K: Yes, thank you. Recognize, recognize. And by custody we mean custody of the responsibility of helping him out when he’s down kind of thing. 

C: Yeah.

K: I think we would both still do it. We jest. We’re not getting a divorce. It’s a bad joke. So, is that dark humor or just bad humor, or both? Is it bad dark humor?

C: I don’t know. Probably both.

K: Hey, hit us up on twitter, let us know. (laughs)

C: I think it’s the kind of thing that when you’re newly married you get really superstitious about.

K: About what?

C: About years one through five, you didn’t want any mention of the possibility of not being married.

K: Would I knock whenever I said divorce?

C: You would knock on wood whenever you like said sleep in different rooms for the night.

K: I don’t think I was that precious.

C: You were very precious about sleeping in different buildings.

K: No, not- because our original plan was to live next door to each other, not in the same house. 

C: I know. But then when we moved in together, you liked it so much you were like “yeah I don’t want you spending any nights away.”

K: Yeah, that’s true. And then I came to Japan for a few months and we were away.

C: Yes.

K: And when we moved into our current house, we were in a different bedroom, and I switched bedrooms. And now you’ve followed me to a different bedroom.

C: Well, yeah, it gets lonely.

K: (laughs) So don’t make it like I’m the only reason we share the same room.

C: I’m not trying to say that.

K: And I love our new bed setup.

C: Yes.

K: So, we sleep on a futon, I think I’ve talked about us sleeping on a futon before.

C: You have.

K: But now we’re currently sleeping on like five futons.

C: Each.

K: Yeah, and it’s glorious. It feels like a pillow top- and the way that we have it configured, it’s like a California king pillow top bed, which is what we had in United States. I miss the family bed. But Rasta laying in bed with us now is not the same. He’s so big and awkward. And he’s hot. Oh my god, he’s like having a heater. Just like he generates so much heat just him being in the same room I think raises the temperature by like five or six degrees.

C: Well there’s a difference now with him being taller than you than when he was like three feet tall.

K: Yeah, and he could snuggle into the crook of my body. That was so cute. I loved little choney boy. I loved him in his chonos and his shirt. I thought he was so cute, such a cute kid. He’s a gorgeous man. Handsome man. But it’s just not the same.

C: It is not the same.

K: He’s not littlefoot anymore. He’s still littlefoot to me.

C: We get asked a lot about being married at immigration.

K: Yes, we do. (laughs)

C: But socially nobody cares

K: Immigration sweats our marriage status, but now that we’re permanent residents, Japan doesn’t care. 

C: Right.

K: Japan does not care whether or not we’re married.

C: Because you’re a permanent resident and I’m a permanent resident.

K: Right. For me that’s so weird because we can’t have joint bank accounts.

C: Right.

K: And multiple people cannot own a domestic piece of property.

C: Right.

K: And so, for our business ventures and stuff, only one can be the president, and one can be the vice president. There’s no fifty- it can be fifty-fifty for money and everything division, but for power, there has to be one person in power. One person who is the ultimate decider.

C: The representative director.

K: Yeah, and so to me that’s weird. We can’t just do everything together.

C: Yeah. It’s like we’re two people.

K: (laughs)

C: It’s weird.

K: Do you think that’s the difference? That Japan recognizes individual autonomy. Or do you think this is part of the patriarchy?

C: I don’t actually think either one. I think this is part of the system of obligations.

K: Part of the what?

C: System of obligations.

K: Okay.

C: Because if you run a company and it fails, let’s say you run a corporation and it fails, in the U.S. you just walk away because “what, those are the corporation’s debts.”

K: Yeah.

C: In Japan, you don’t walk away. They become your debts when your corporation fails.

K: Is that real?

C: That’s real.

K: I don’t know.

C: I have gone to multiple seminars on this.

K: Okay, but I just have to do a disclaimer for our listeners: do not believe Chad on any of the laws. Just don’t believe Chad on legal stuff. He is not a legal expert. He has no training in Japanese law. He has no training in accounting. Nothing. He’s just talking.

C: Japanese accounting. I do have training in accounting, but not Japanese accounting.

K: (laughs) But still do not trust Chad on any bookkeeping stuff. Like, are you really trying to go in on the accounting stuff?

C: No.

K: Do you want people to take your accounting advice?

C: I would like them to take my business advise, so yes. But only if they pay for it. I don’t want them to take my business advice from the podcast.

K: So, you do not do business consulting. You do have, what’s your business degree?

C: A PGCE – post-graduate certificate of education in business. 

K: Explain what that is.

C: That’s the thing that I use when I do business consulting. 

K: (laughs) That’s your certification. But yeah, no, what does that mean?

C: It means that I’m certified in different areas of business. So, specifically in project management, in finance, in marketing, in strategic management and all of that kind of stuff. So sometimes I talk with companies about what they can do in different areas, but I’m not an accountant so I’m not giving accounting advice. I just tell them this is an accounting issue, talk to your accountant. And I’m not a lawyer, I don’t give legal advice. I tell them talk to your lawyer about this.

K: Correctamundo. I just wanted to do a disclaimer.

C: Yeah.

K: So, do you think that if we had been new- newlyweds, nudey-weds. Oh, we’re nudey-weds. (laughs)

C: Speaking of our honeymoon. Bow chika bow bow

K: Bow bow. Oh yeah. 

C: If we’d been newlyweds…

K: Do you think it’d have been different for us if we had been newlyweds in Japan?

C: I think it would’ve, and I’m basing this on the number of people I know who have gotten secretly married here in Japan.

K: You know one, no, two, three… four It’s up to four now right?

C: Yes.

K: Okay. (laughs)

C: That I know about.

K: Yeah, cannot confirm or deny. (laughs)

C: There may be more people who have gotten secretly married.

K: Okay.

C: But a guy who I was working with told me like six months after he got married “oh I got married but it’s still a secret.” And it was like two years before he revealed to the other coworkers with the company that he had gotten married.

K: Yeah, which I think is so weird. Because it’s so easy, you just go down to an office and say, “hey we want to get married” and then you’re married. It’s just paperwork.

C: Yeah. So, all marriages in Japan are civil marriages.

K: Yeah.

C: There is no religious marriage in Japan despite the number of religious ceremonies. You have your religious ceremony whenever you feel like it, but the getting married itself is going down and filing the paperwork. So, you don’t have cases where people have the religious ceremony and think they’re married and then find out that their partner never actually got their marriage registered.

K: (laughs) Like what happened to you?

C: Hmm?

K: Didn’t that happen to your first marriage? Both Chad and myself were married once before, and if you’re a regular listener, you already know that. And If not, go listen to our other episodes man, learn all kinds of stuff about us.

C: Right? No, that did not happen to me. That happened to somebody you know.

K: Who?

C: The wedding that we spent driving around and doing stuff and actually missed the first part of it, but we were supposed to take photographs.

K: No, we weren’t supposed to take photographs. We ended up taking photographs because we had that good camera.

C: We ended up taking photographs because the wedding

K: Yeah, their photographer didn’t

C: Yeah.

K: Yeah.

C: But we just got there right at the end of the ceremony because traffic was bad.

K: I know which one you’re talking about. So, we’re not trying to be cagey, we just don’t mention anybody’s name on the podcast for legal reasons. (laughs)

C: Don’t sue us. 

K: Well, and two, being a therapist, I’m like everybody gets to be the keeper of their own stories, we only tell our stories, we don’t tell other people’s stories. With the exception of Rasta, who’s our son, and we have his permission to talk about him. 

C: Yeah.

K: But I think it’s more like we don’t have this person’s permission to talk about them.

C: Correct.

K: To our massive fanbase. (laughs)

C: Right.

K: I was super excited because we do have a really decent fanbase. We’re so humbled and honored. Thank you guys for listening. I love it, it’s so awesome. It makes me feel really good.

C: I appreciate it too.

K: I tweet about it often because it makes me feel so good. So, yeah. That did happen to them. So, our wedding, I don’t know if we’ve talked about this before, I think we have. Our wedding was officiated by somebody who’s like a brother to me. 

C: Yeah, we talked about that. 

K: So that was really lovely and beautiful, and we handled all of the legal documentation and everything. And when we first came to Japan, we had to- every couple of years, every time when we would go through the visa process, we would have to renew our relation- like retell our relationship story to them to say who we were, what we were doing, all of that because we’ve- you and I both have had several different visas, which I’m not going to go into. If you want to know about our visas, go listen to our Visa Hustle in Japan episode. 

C: Yeah.

K: But, post-that, I didn’t really feel- like, I don’t feel like we do those kinds of legal things together anymore. I feel like we’re such complete and separate legal entities.

C: Yeah, we really are.

K: And I don’t know, I feel like that kind of takes away some of the intimacy for me.

C: Interesting. 

K: Yeah. 

C: Like you’d like to be responsible for the things I do?

K: Yes, I would.

C: Interesting. Because I’m glad I’m not for the things you do. You don’t do anything bad. 

K: Yeah, I’m like “what would you be responsible for?”

C: I don’t know. That’s the point. 

K: Okay.

C: I’m only responsible for my own actions.

K: Yeah. 

C: But also, socially people don’t really care if you’re married or not. 

K: Yeah, they really don’t.

C: So, the- and it depends on who you’re talking with. Like, foreign people, a lot of them cared if you’re married, but what they want to know is if you’re married to someone Japanese. 

K: Yeah. Well, Japanese nationals care whether or not I’m married to someone Japanese, like everybody wants to know

C: If they care that you’re married. 

K: your nationality, but they don’t really care that I’m married. They just want to know what I’m attracted to.

C: Mmm, yeah.

K: (laughs) I tell them Santa.

(laughter)

C: Not just any Santa.

K: No, THE Santa.

C: Yup, grew up there in the North Pole.

K: You did. (laughs) For me, I feel like everybody sort of assumes because of my age that I’m married. That, and I wear a wedding ring.

C: Yes.

K: But nobody wants to be our couple friends. Like, in the United States, it was very much part of the culture that we would be expected to have couple friends. Like, another married couple that we would hang out and did things with. Even though we never had that. We had a group of friends, but they were more parent friends than couple friends.

C: Yes. They were couples who were parents of Rasta’s friends. Yeah.

K: Yeah. And isn’t that interesting. That of all of Rasta’s friends, only one was a single parent. And they were going through a divorce when we met them, but everyone else was married. Interesting.

C: Yeah.

K: What do you think about that? That’s a trip to me.

C: I think that’s a result of the school that he went to.

K: Mmm. Really?

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t think so. I don’t think so. 

C: Yeah because we- we don’t know how many people were single parents or going through a divorce at his prior schools because people weren’t really interested in getting to know us. When he was in kindergarten and first grade. 

K: So, do you think it was a matter of us having that group of five families?

C: Yeah, I think so.

K: And getting to know them really well. But we had other people come in and flow in and out of the group.

C: Yeah, we did.

K: Well, we had the core five. 

C: Yeah.

K: The person who was supposed to be head of our group really sucked. I don’t even think they came to the first event at our house.

C: No. I don’t even remember who it was.

K: I don’t either. So, I think I just took over. (laughs)

C: You did. Party planner extraordinaire.

K: Yes. And the house was really great for that. I really loved the house. We had a house that was for events, and I really loved it. For me, I don’t know if it’s- getting back to the married thing- I have a hard time figuring out what’s Japan and what’s time. 

C: Mhm.

K: Because we’ve been together over twenty years.

C: Yes.

K: You feel so inevitable to me. And in the United States, you didn’t feel inevitable.

C: Mhmm.

K: Does that make sense?

C: Yes. 

K: Do I feel inevitable to you now?

C: I think you feel eternal. Not inevitable. 

K: I feel eternal?

C: Yeah. Like, obviously you’re going to die someday, and probably before me because you’re older than me, as we’ve discussed. 

K: Yeah. I’m in my last days. 

C: And yes, we do mean that in the biblical sense.

K: Yeah. No, because I’m having a porphyria attack, and so whenever I have- because I have hereditary coproporphyria, and whenever I have a porphyria attack, it feels like dying. 

C: Yeah.

K: It feels like my individual cells are dying, which they are, but it feels like they’re dying at a rate faster than which they’re being reproduced. It’s a really horrible feeling, so- maybe that’s why I’m philosophically contemplating our marriage.

C: Mm, maybe.

K: And like, the differences between the U.S. and Japan. 

C: Yeah, I mean there’s an ease with it that there’s no pressure to do things as a married couple. 

K: Yeah, in the U.S. there was a tremendous amount of pressure to always be together.

C: Like, I see a lot of comments on twitter and such about people saying like ”I took myself to the movies and it was so liberating to just take myself” and sometimes they are people who are single, and sometimes they are people who are married, but, like, guys talking about “I just need some guy time, like away from my family” or you know “the girls night out.” American culture seems to have this thing where you have to make an excuse to be away from your partner.

K: mm. Yeah. Do you think that’s just in younger couples? 

C: It might just be in younger couples. And in Japan, a lot of older couples, it’s changing somewhat, but a lot of older couples are separated and just never bothered getting a divorce because we have friends who have been effectively divorced for like twenty years but are still legally married.

K: Yeah. Because getting a divorce in Japan is a huge pain. Getting a divorce anywhere is a huge pain. And, too, going back to the financial incentive, I know as long as we’re married it’s expected that you will pay my bills. Which is so interesting that it’s expected that the man will pay the woman’s bills. And that’s patriarchy right there and toxic masculinity. 

C: Well, and that was introduced by Americans. 

K: No, it was not introduced by Americans.

C: Yeah, with the Meiji restoration, which came about after Admiral Perry forced Japan to open up to the outside world, a lot of the institutions of Japan are modeled after the American ones.

K: No, I don’t believe you.

C: I know you don’t believe me. You said earlier in the episode you don’t believe me.

K: (laughs) Well, because, recently- we won’t go into what- but recently you’ve been wrong on several facts about Japan.

C: Yeah. Says you.

K: No, says like… the world.

C: You know, sometimes the world is a cruel place.

K: (laughs) But sometimes you’re wrong, babe. Sometimes you’re wrong. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Here’s a cup to catch your bitter tears.

C: I accept that despite you being disloyal, you are still my wife. I still love you.

K: (laughs) I am not disloyal. You’re so dramatic. 

C: You suggested I was wrong about something. That’s disloyal.

K: Clutch my pearls. Is that how we’re defining loyalty? Is that a new rule?

C: Yes. Which pearls are you going to clutch? I thought I had bought your loyalty with those pearls.

K: (laughs) So, are you saying that if you think I’m wrong, you’re disloyal?

C: No. 

K: So you’re saying double standards?

C: Exactly.

K: So you’re right about everything?

C: Yes because, look, if one standard is good, then double the standards is better.

K: So, we have a rule in our family that if you’re naked, you’re right. Sorry to out you like this, but you’re wearing clothes for this podcast.

C: Yes I am. 

K: Even though we are in bed, you are wearing clothes. 

C: Yes.

K: And so that means you’re not right. You have to be naked if you want that. Because you are a glorious and beautiful thing naked.

C: We had not agreed to the contrapositive of the statement.

K: We haven’t?

C: No, so “if you’re naked, you’re right” does not mean that “you’re not right if you’re not naked.”

K: It means that sometimes you’re right and sometimes you’re wrong.

C: Well not necessarily

K: Yes, necessarily because I’m telling you. (laughs)

C: Wow. Listen to you.

K: Yes, I have to high five myself. That was awesome. That was so good. 

C: You guys can’t see it, but she actually did high five herself.

K: Yes, I did, but I didn’t do the clap sound because I feel like they probably heard me rustling around. 

C: Yeah.

K: But that rustling around was to high five myself because I am awesome. And I kiss my brain.

C: What is the sound of one hand clapping? Be like “that’s not clapping, that’s a high five.”

K: (laughs) It was a two handed high five.

C: Yes.

K: I give my- I do the actual high five for myself. 

C: Yeah.

K: I high five myself all the time because I am awesome that way.

C: So, but when you high five yourself, you’re using all ten, so isn’t that a high ten?

K: No, it’s two high fives. 

C: It’s two high fives. Interesting.

K: Yeah. It’s double the high five. 

C: Okay. Which is ten.

K: No, it’s double the high five.

C: Okay.

K: It’s two high fives. Two high fives does not equal one high ten.

C: It’s ten the hard way.

K: No. Not ten the hard way either.

C: Okay.

K: I don’t play craps, you do. 

C: Yeah.

K: I’ve never played craps.

C: I have played craps. So, when we went to Las Vegas I played craps for like fifteen minutes, and

K: You lost so much money. (laughs)

C: I lost like a hundred dollars or something, but we got a free three night stay because the floor manager came by and scanned my card and assumed I was playing for longer than that, and so you took that three night stay at the hotel and went and had fun with some friends. You had a girls’ weekend.

K: Yes I did. Which wasn’t fun at all. It wasn’t fun. 

C: Yeah. I know it wasn’t fun, but it was intended to be.

K: Mmm. No, I don’t think it ever was. I thought it could be, and then it wasn’t. It just like- I’m not into Vegas. I thought I was into Vegas, but I’m not. Because we went that one time and it was super fun when it was just me and you, but then we went again with some friends, it wasn’t as fun. And then I went with some friends without you, and it wasn’t as fun, and then we went and met up with my cousin- wasn’t as fun. 

C: Yeah. 

K: So, the message here is that I should only do stuff with you. 

C: That is the message.

K: Right? That we should just do stuff just the two of us.

C: Like, if we’re going to go gambling, because we live across the street pretty much from a pachinko parlor. 

K: Yes we do.

C: We should do that together and then the entire time we’ve been here, we’ve never gone to pachinko.

K: We’ve walked into a pachinko, but we didn’t play.

C: I think we did that when we were tourists. I don’t think we’d even moved here at the time that we did that.

K: No, we did that over in Kanayama because we thought it was an arcade.

C: Oh yeah, yeah.

K: And it was so hella smoky. 

C: Because there was an arcade right next door run by the same company.

K: Yeah, I thought that the pachinko was downstairs and then you go upstairs, and it was an arcade.

C: There’s like side by side, I forget the exact arrangement, but

K: I just remember it was way too smoky for me to feel good about Rasta hanging out there. 

C: Yeah, this was a while ago.

K: Yeah, it was smoke-filled. 

C: This was maybe a decade ago.

K: So, now there’s no smoking?

C: Um. I think at this point, there’s still some smoking, but by next year- by the 2020 Olympics, they’re going to be basically banning smoking in most indoor places. 

K: Mmm. So, what’s a pachinko parlor? Because it’s not really slot machines

C: Well, some of them are slot machines. Some of them are directly slot machines.

K: But I thought it was pachinko like you take and you put a ball in the top, and then it goes pa, chin, ko, pa, chin, ko like that.

C: Yeah. 

K: (laughs)

C: So there’s some of that. But a lot of them now are called pachisurotto, which is Japanese abbreviation of pachinko-slot. So, they- they’re slot machines. 

K: Okay, like you pull the lever.

C: Like you pull the lever and you get rewarded with pachinko balls rather than with coins.

K: Okay. That doesn’t make any sense.

C: No, but it’s a lot faster than the bouncing. And it’s a lot easier, so there’s these guys called pin men that come in and move the pins around so that people can’t figure out how to win at pachinko. 

K: Mhmm.

C: Because pachinko itself, not the slot version, but the physical version is a game with skill. You can figure out exactly how to put the balls in such that you get more balls out than you put in. Which means you win. And then there’s a whole complicated pseudo-legal system to get money back because

K: I thought they gave you cigarettes, and then you go sell the cigarettes next door.

C: Yes, that’s why I said there’s a pseudo-legal system. There’s this sham that you’re not gambling for money.

K: Mmm. But now they’re doing it with open straight-up casinos.

C: Yes.

K: How do you feel about that? I hope they don’t open one up in Ozone. I hope they do that like

C: No, it’s not- it’s not going to be small casinos, they’re not legalizing gambling. They’re doing it for larger things, and I think they’re talking about opening one out at Nagoya Messe, which is out near the airport.

K: Okay. That doesn’t- yeah because it’s like a whole thing that they’re building up that area to make it like its own little city. There’s a bunch of new restaurants out there and stuff. I know a couple people who work out there. I wouldn’t want to work out there. That’s a long commute.

C: It’s not as bad as the other airports in Japan. So, CENTRAIR airport, which is the airport we live nearby, is twenty-five minutes from the city. 

K: Twenty-five minutes from Nagoya station?

C: From Kanayama station.

K: From Kanayama station?

C: Yeah.

K: It didn’t feel like twenty-five minutes to me.

C: Yeah, it’s twenty-five minutes. They advertise it everywhere.

K: Do they?

C: Yeah.

K: I can- I ‘m not literate, so I just, I don’t read anything. I don’t even try to read anything. 

C: Which is interesting. It just says 2 and 5.

K: Yeah, I’m illiterate. I don’t read anything. 

(laughter)

K: I can’t read the numbers in Japanese. So, okay, it’s only 25 minutes.

C: Yeah, it’s 25 minutes.

K: After this cast, I’m going to be looking up all this stuff that you’re saying. I’m in a really doubting mood. 

C: Yeah.

K: Because I’m like “I don’t believe you”

C: On the express train, so we always take the express train when we go to the airport.

K: Okay. So yeah, I don’t think that if you’re commuting there to and from work that work is going to pay for you to take the express. 

C: Well, the express is 300 yen more each way, so that’s about 5 dollars a day.

K: Yeah, and I don’t think your work is going to pay an extra 25 dollars a week.

C: Probably not.

K: Ni sen go hyaku en? I don’t think so.

C: Yeah, probably not.

K: So, 2500 yen. I don’t think so.

C: Yeah. 

K: That’s like the first time I’ve said anything in Japanese on the podcast.

C: Yup. You’ve slipped up. We’re going to have to rerecord the whole thing. 

K: I felt like that. I was like “man I slipped up I’m not supposed to say anything” but I think I’ve said maybe one or two other Japanese words before.

C: Maybe. Next, you’re going to be like “kekkonshiteimasu” which means “I’m married” 

K: Yeah, I was going to say “machigaemashita” 

C: You made a mistake.

K: Yup. Slipped up. Woops. Sugoi dane. (laughs)

C: Or one of our favorite Japanese phrases. “OH MY GOD”

K: (laughs) Yes it is. I love that one.

C: Which means the same thing in Japanese as it does in English. 

K: Yeah, it does. So, how do you feel about the state of our marriage in Japan. Does it feel looser? 

C: I think there’s so many ways to answer that.

K: Okay. Hit me.

C: Well, one is that no there’s nothing loose about our marriage.

K: Okay.

C: It’s still tight. It’s still monogamous. 

K: Yeah, it’s monogamous.

C: There’s no looseness there.

K: But I don’t think being poly makes it loose.

C: I think that it doesn’t make the marriage loose, but it would make our marriage loose because it would change the nature of it.

K: Yeah, but we would still have good boundaries.

C: Yeah, I agree. 

K: So, if you’re talking tightness with regards to boundaries within the marriage between you and I, I think absolutely that our marriage is still as tight as it was in the United States. But, in terms of- for me- it feels loose in terms of society. So in the United States, there were- were people that we knew who were like if you were a happily married man, it meant they would go after you thinking “well, you’re the marrying kind” and that they would be happily married with you. And I don’t find that same kind of people wanting to attack the relationship. 

C: No, it is socially less relevant here.

K: Yeah, so to me that makes it feel like a little bit more relaxed, I guess, rather than loose?

C: Yeah.

K: Because I don’t feel- in the United States, I felt like I had to be more vigilant about our monogamy. Or whatever state we were in. However we were choosing to couple, I felt like I had to be more vigilant of those decisions. So- I don’t see, and again, I don’t know if this is like an age thing or a cultural thing because now that I’m 50, now that I’m in my fifties (laughs) 

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t know, maybe I’m just more chill about some things? Maybe I’m less

C: You might just be more chill about some things. 

K: Less wound?

C: Yeah, it might be. Because we’ve had to spend times apart when we’ve been married whether we’re- you know- I was traveling for work or for a conference or when you came over here to study Japanese before we moved here.

K: Yeah.

C: I think that when we were in the U.S. we didn’t travel without each other because there was no need to.

K: Yeah.

C: And now we have.

K: So, I feel like in the United States, we were more intertwined, and I feel like here we’re independent of each other.

C: That’s what I’m saying it’s 

K: I have my friends, you have your friends, we don’t really have our friends.

C: That’s what I’m saying, it’s much less socially relevant here that we’re married, which is why I think people keep a secret that they’re married. 

K: But do you think that’s specific to Japan? Or do you think that if we were at this phase of our marriage in the United States- see, I found in the U.S. people would ask me to meet you. 

C: Yeah.

K: Like people would say “when are we going to meet that husband of yours”

C: Yeah.

K: Like if I was doing stuff without you, they were suspicious of me.

C: I do think it’s Japan, and I think especially among foreigners, the dynamic seems to be that one of the people has the working visa and they’re always at work or doing work related stuff and the other person has a lot of free time.

K: Mmm.

C: And so I meet a lot of people while they’re at work or doing work related stuff where they don’t feel like it would be appropriate for their spouse to show up.

K: Mhmmm.

C: And you meet people in those cases, but you also meet a lot of people who are not at work

K: Well, I meet a lot of people through women’s groups because I belong to several different women’s groups.

C: Right. 

K: And so the spaces that I inhabit are almost all female. 

C: Right, and so it’s not always the case that it’s the man working and the woman with the free time, but it’s the vast majority of cases for ex-pat couples that come over.

K: mmm. So you’re saying like the trailing spouse type of thing.

C: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. 

K: Okay. Because I find that people married to Japanese nationals usually both partners work.

C: Yes.

K: and a lot of “trailing” spouse- I do air quotes on the trailing part- a lot of spouses of ex-pats now are starting to work and so are starting to be double working. 

C: Right.

K: I’ve been recently thinking about getting into the independent art scene, but then I don’t know when I would have the time. Because with my PHD, like if I’m not working on my PHD then I’m usually working on the podcast, if I’m not working on the PHD or the podcast, then I’m working. Like, earning money. So I just don’t have the free time that I used to because gosh, I think it’s been a year honestly, okay guys, it’s going to get real right now. We’re going to get real. We’re going to take it down and we’re going to real talk. 

C: Okay. 

K: I haven’t socialized in over a year.

C: Mmm.

K: Like, real talk.

C: But you’ve been on twitter.

K: Yes I have.

C: It counts. 

K: It does?

C: It does.

K: No, I love out tweeps, and I do have some really great friends on twitter that I talk with on a fairly regular basis, but to go out and have a cup of coffee or go out to dinner, I’ve done that with Rasta. Our son. Because I hang out with him. He and I are good friends, we’re great pals, and I’ve done that with you, and I’ve done that with you and him. But outside of you guys, I don’t think I’ve socialized in person over a year.

C: Yeah, I don’t think you have. I think not since you went and presented at that conference and hung out for a bit afterwards. 

K: Yeah. So, you know, it’s not a sad or lonely life, it’s a busy life, so I don’t- I’ve been wanting to do like the FAE, the foreign arts exhibit, but I just… I don’t know. Every time, every year I’ve set the goal of wanting to go, I just don’t have the time. 

C: Yeah, that’s rough.

K: Yeah it is. So, there’s like a lot of different art exhibits and stuff that I want to go to, and I end up just youtubing it and watching the art exhibit on YouTube because I do watch YouTube every single day. I’m a YouTube fanatic. So do you think that our lack- my lack of free time because you have tons of free time, do you think that my lack of free time is affecting our marriage?

C: I think it affects how much we socialize externally with other people in person

K: Okay.

C: So I don’t think it affects how we socialize except that we don’t go out together.

K: And you go out quite a bit, I think. I feel like you go out three or four times a month. 

C: It’s one or two a month but I know you think that’s quite a bit.

K: (laughs) Come on, I haven’t socialized in a year. Like, doing a PHD man is intense.

C: It is intense.

K: and I also feel like doing the PhD, so maybe it’s not Japan, maybe it’s my PhD that’s making the marriage feel a little bit loosey goosey because I have like two or three days a month that are marriage days that I focus on our marriage and making sure our relationship is in a good place and all of that. And then we puzzle almost every single day, which I feel like that helps us, And I like having a hobby because in the United States we didn’t have a hobby.

C: No.

K: I think our hobby was throwing parties and traveling were our hobbies.

C: Yeah, our hobby was flying the helicopters required to be helicopter parents.

K: (laughs) I’m still a helicopter parent. I still am. I own it. I embrace it.

C: I feel like now you’re more like an unmanned drone parent.

K: Yeah, I feel like in Japan, I’ve always been that way because I still have never been to the Kiin.

C: Yeah.

K: So he started going to the Kiin, that’s uh, the igobun, dang it. What is it?

C: It’s the place where you go to play the game go.

K: A go club. Thank you. I was trying to think of the English for it. So my mind’s on Japanese because after this we’re studying Japanese together, and so I think I’m more in like a Japanese mindset. I do not speak Japanese. Do not think, do not let me perpetrate a fraud in this podcast up in here.

C: She doesn’t speak Japanese, she doesn’t speak Spanish, she doesn’t speak French

K: I don’t. 

C: She doesn’t speak Russian or Turkish. 

K: I don’t. Like, legitimately, I don’t. 

C: I’m just saying the truth.

K: Okay. 

C: The people need to know.

K: That I am a monolingual?

C: A monoglot?

K: Is that what it’s called?

C: Yeah, that’s what it’s called. 

K: See, I’m suspicious.

C: A polyglot is a person who speaks more than one language and a monoglot is a person who speaks one language. 

K: But bilingual is someone who speaks two languages, so monolingual is someone who speaks one.

C: But that’s an adjective. 

K: What?

C: That’s an adjective, so you could say “I’m a monolingual person”

K: That’s what I was saying. I’m just a human girl who speaks one language.

C: Yeah? Okay.

K: I only speak one language is the whole point of this.

C: I think you speak two. I think you speak English and I think you speak only to me, the language of love. 

K: (laughs) You are such a cornball. So, okay, what do you think are the biggest differences between being married in the United States versus married in Japan?

C: I think it’s social expectations. I think in the United States, it’s “are you married, what do you do?”

K: Are you married, what do you do? What kind of car do you drive?

C: Yeah. Are you married, what’s your job, what kind of car do you drive, that kind of thing. Where do you live.

K: Yeah.

C: In Japan it’s more like

K: What country are you from?

C: What country are you from, and then if it’s a Japanese speaker, how much money do you make?

K: (laughs) If it’s a Japanese national.

C: Yeah. Japanese national, I shouldn’t say Japanese speaker. And what are your hobbies?

K: Yes. 

C: Marriage rarely comes up. So, if I’ve been talking to somebody for a while, then they’ll say “are you married” and I’ll flash them the giant wedding ring like “yes, for many years”

K: Yeah because I put a rock on your finger.

C: Yeah. But we have our cheap “don’t mug me” rings too

K: Yeah. (laughs)

C: So sometimes we wear that if my bones are hurting.

K: Yeah, I almost always wear my cheap “don’t mug me” ring. I hardly ever wear the stones anymore.

C: Yeah, so we have wedding rings that we got, that we did the whole traditional diamonds thing, and I have a diamond in mine, you’ve got a diamond, we’ve both got rubies. But we also have ten-dollar rings that we got that are stainless steel. 

K: Yeah, and I love them. 

C: Yeah, they’re super great. 

K: They’re super comfy.

C: And we always travel with those. Whenever we go someplace that we don’t know, we travel with those because 

K: Yeah, it’s safer.

C: Yeah, if somebody wants to mug us for our ring “here have it.” You know.

K: Yeah. Because the other ring, it’s not the monetary value of the rings, it’s the sentimentality of that’s the ring that you gave me on our wedding day. So it’s really quite precious to me.

C: Yeah, there’s a whole history behind it.

K: Yeah. Because we both designed our wedding rings and so like, I think we talked about our wedding rings on a different episode.

C: I think so, yeah. 

K: Listen to past episodes peeps. Like, for reals, they’re good. They’re high quality stuff, man. Good stuff all around.

C: Yes, yes they are. 

K: Oh and if you go onto our Patreon, you can check out our take-twos where Chad and I write about our thoughts about the episode and what we talked about and I think those are unlocked at what level?

C: Ten dollars a month.

K: At the ten dollar a month level, and then at the 5 dollar a month level, you get a discount on merchandise, and at the 2 dollar a month level, you get the early access.

C: You get to listen a week early, yeah.

K: Which is good stuff. So, yes, we do record these a bit earlier because we want to give our patrons something, you know, a bang for their buck kind of thing because we totally totally appreciate everyone who supports us on Patreon. We really appreciate it, it really helps out a lot. 

C: We do because until you do one you won’t know how expensive it is to do a podcast. 

K: Right? They cost grip. I was shocked. Shocked, I tell you. So, yeah, basically if you want to get married, you should.

C: Yeah.

K: And if you don’t want to get married, you shouldn’t. 

C: Good advice.

K: That isn’t what we talked about, but if you ever want to come to Japan, I’d say get married before.

C: Definitely get married before. Because if you want to do it for immigration purposes, immigration is very suspicious of new marriages. 

K: Yeah, they are really suspicious of new marriages. 

C: They think anybody who is newly married is doing it for immigration purposes even if they’re foreigners, so

K: Well it depends on which office you go to.

C: Yeah, it comes down to the individual bureaucrat.

K: Yeah.

C: And at the time that we’re recording this, may change by the time this comes out, but I don’t think so. 

K: (laughs) Have I made you doubt yourself?

C: No. Same-sex marriage is not legal in Japan but there are a few cities that recognize it. So.

K: Yeah, I- man, love is love. I hope love wins. I hope same-sex marriage is legalized all over the world. I think people should be allowed- anybody who wants to get married should be allowed to get married as long as it’s two consenting adults. 

C: Yes. 

K: I don’t think that children should be allowed to get married, and I’m sorry if that makes me an ageist, but to me it’s more about protecting kids. And I don’t like those arranged marriages of young kids.

C: I grew up Mormon, and I grew up in the mainstream Mormon church, so it wasn’t everybody, but I knew quite a few people who got married as kids, and none of them stayed married so.

K: Yeah, and I just think you know, childhood is for being a kid man. That’s what I think. So, yeah, if you want to get married get married, and if you don’t, don’t. And our marriage is as solid as ever. (laughs)

C: Yeah. But nobody asks about it because we’re here in Japan. 

K: Yeah, our marriage is solid as ever, but nobody cares.

(laughter)

K: So that’s us for today. Check us out on our social media and stuff, listen to the outro, and we hope you come back and listen again. If you haven’t listened to the old episodes, go check them out man, they’re interesting. Good stuff. Good stuff all around. So, yeah. Bye.

C: Bye-bye.