K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about how living in Japan has changed us.

C: You think it’s changed you?

K: Yeah, I do. Do you think it’s changed you?

C: Probably, but I’ve also gotten a little bit older.

(K laughs)

K: Yeah, I’ve gotten quite a bit older because I’m over a decade older. So, I feel like it’s a mix of a couple of things that have changed me. Living in Japan, having our son move out of the house, and aging a decade.

C: Yes.

K: So, of those three things, which of those three things do you think has changed you the most?

C: I think it’s probably a blend of the them, but I do think that living in Japan has changed the way that I view things.

K: And what do you think, like, so which things?

C: I think the way that I view space, like living space, personal space, public spaces, what to do in spaces, all of that kind of stuff has been changed by living in Japan.

K: Oh, absolutely. That’s a good one. Because I do think that’s one of the major things that has changed in me as well. Like, living space I look at our apartment now, which a 4 LDK (or 4 bedrooms, living room, and dining room), and I think “It is freaking HUGE.” But it is like half the size of the house that we had in the United States.

C: Yeah, and I notice you don’t mention the K is kitchen (K laughs) because it’s a Japanese-style kitchen, so it’s, you know, in the US we’d call it a galley kitchen. It’s a little hallway with appliances on both sides.

K: Yeah, and we don’t even have like a dedicated oven. Well, I actually like our oven, so I’m not gonna bag on it, but it’s a combination microwave and traditional oven, so…

C: Right.

K: We can microwave in it, and we can bake in it, and for a lot of years, I’ve felt like it did neither one of those very well.

C: It still doesn’t microwave very well. A bag of microwave popcorn can take up to six minutes.

K: Yes.

C: And it says on the bag “if you put this in for more than two minutes, it will be a flaming ball of fire.” (K laughs) So…

K: I’m getting used to cooking in Celsius was a trip.

C: Ahh, yes. Yes.

K: That was a huge trip for me. Like, for everything to be at 230 as like the starting temp, cooking temperature. I think I pretty much bake everything at 230.

C: You’re 230 or 250, depending on how, how moist it is.

K: Yeah. So, I still don’t feel like I have a great relationship with Celsius.

C: Uh huh.

K: But I feel like I’m getting to know it a little better.

C: It’s kind of strange, but you guys are fighting less now.

K: Yeah. (laughs) That’s a good way to put it. So, having to live in the metric system has been a trip. And with our son driving, ’cause, well, our listeners don’t know, but you know that our son drives me everywhere because I can’t drive in Japan. But he and I both have the experience of learning how far 10 meters was.

C: Mmm.

K: Because we use GPS, and it says “turn in 10 meters”, and we’re like… is that this light or the next light? (C laughs) And so now we like, we have a, I have a much better understanding of how far a kilometer is, how far a meter is, thanks to GPS.

C: Well, thank you, GPS, for that.

K: Yes, I really appreciate it. And I have a better understanding of Celsius thanks to the Japanese summer.

C: Yes. Because 30 degrees is about the limit.

K: Yeah, and 24 degrees Celsius is hot. Hot hot hot.

C: Unless you’re at home, and then it might be cold. (K laughs)

K: Yeah, that’s what have your internal heating turned to. I do so miss heating in the United States. Heating and air-conditioning in the United States.

C: The way that it’s done.

K: Yeah, the way that it’s done.

C: Yeah, so we have split-unit air conditioners, which means that each room has its own air conditioner, and half of it is inside and then the compressor half is outside, rather than in the US we had central air.

K: Yeah.

C: So the whole house would be one single temperature. And here, the temperature changes from room to room.

K: Yeah. So, in terms of spaces, so for me, the house is a completely different space.

C: Mmhmm.

K: Because we have our pantry is actually in what would be our tatami room if we had a tatami room, and the tatami room is basically grass mats put down on the floor and then it has sliding doors. And I think just about every apartment has a tatami room.

C: I think so, yeah.

K: Yeah, and so our tatami room is actually your office, and it was once our son’s bedroom, and is now the pantry, where we store all our dried goods because we have no cabinet space in the kitchen.

C: Right. We have a little bit above the counter where our knives fit. So… yeah.

K: They’re really shallow, and really low. Our cabinets, at least.

C: If you think about like a weekly stay hotel in the US (K laughs) and you cut the space in half, that’s about what we’ve got.

K: No, I think we have like the total… I think our kitchen’s a little bit bigger than a weekly stay kitchen because we have a full-sized refrigerator.

C: We do have a full-sized refrigerator, yes.

K: Yeah, so I think it’s about when we drove cross country, I think it’s about the same size as the weekly-stay kitchens.

C: And our refrigerator opens from either side, but I don’t feel like that’s changed me as a person. (K laughs)

K: But it has been convenient for, because the refrigerator has now lived in three different apartments.

C: Yes. It has convenient moving, and we didn’t have to redo the hinges just because it was only convenient to open it from one side or the other.

K: Yes, but we did have to lose our dryer. Our clothes dryer.

C: Yes, we did. Sad day. Because there’s no venting to outside, so if we put it in the apartment, all it would do is dry and blow wet linty air into the apartment.

K: Yeah. And we could have got, we could have had it connected to where it vented, but it was—because it was a stackable washer/dryer

C: Right. And too wide for the space. So it was a whole thing. But line drying is really, really common in the US. Not in the US, in Japan.

K: Yeah, most people line dry.

C: Most people line dry.

K: And like our son, he has his washing machine for his clothes is actually on his balcony.

C: Right.

K: So he opens up a window and puts his clothes in that way, and then he can actually hang them from inside the house. I don’t know if he does. Probably.

C: Probably, yeah.

(K laughs)

K: So, okay, so how has the living space changed you? Like, do you think of our apartment as big?

C: Yeah, I think of our apartment as big. I mean,

K: Our manshon.

C: Yes.

K: Because in Japan, it’s called, where we live is called a manshon.

C: Yes.

K: Which it’s a condo, because we own it.

C: Or for any UK listeners, a flat. Our door lets, our door lets out directly to the outside world, not to a hallway. (K laughs)

K: That is such a strange turn of phrase. What do you mean?

C: I mean—

K: It does let to the outside world, but what are you talking about?

C: I mean we live in what I would call an apartment building, but we don’t have a hallway. So I’ve lived in apartments where when you open your door, you’re in a hallway.

K: Oh, okay. I’m trying to think… yeah, I guess

C: When I met you, you lived in a place that it opened into the hallway. (K laughs)

K: No, I had to think about. I never thought of that as a hallway, even though it did open up to an apartment across the hall, and not to the doors.

C: Right.

K: So okay, yeah, gotcha. Okay. Yeah. Because when we moved in together, the apartment we lived in opened out to the world, not to a hallway.

C: That’s correct.

K: But my father’s apartment in that same complex opened to a hallway.

C: That’s correct.

K: Okay. Gotcha. I’m caught up now. Okay.

C: Caught up on the lingo?

K: Yeah. (laughs) Okay, so what are you talking about? Our… yeah, I asked you how does our apartment—do you think it’s big?

C: I think it’s big, yeah. It’s got enough space to do all the different things we do. We have enough space that we can keep a puzzle set up permanently.

K: Yes.

C: So we can always have a puzzle going. We have enough space to cook and to eat and to work in a place that’s not bed. (K laughs) And to store all—

K: Even though my favorite place to work is bed.

C: Yes, but you like working on your laptop and I like working on my desktop, so.

K: Yeah.

C: And we have a place to store our clothes and things, so I feel like we have enough space.

K: I feel like more than enough space.

C: Probably.

K: I feel like we could lose two rooms and be okay.

C: I would be confused if we just lost them.

K: (laughs) Like if we woke up and the two rooms were gone?

C: Yeah. “Where’d they go?”

K: Yeah, that would freak me out, too. Yeah, that would freak me out. Would they open up to the nothing?

C: Yeah. Or new neighbors.

K: Oh, no!

C: —No, these are our…

K: (laughs) That would not be good. So I guess we’ll be keeping those two rooms.

C: Yes.

K: But I’m saying that I’ve always felt like we could downsize.

C: Yes. I think so.

K: I feel like we needed this much space when our son was living with us.

C: Right. I feel like that. So we have four bedrooms, and it’s 900 square feet. So, for people listening, I don’t know whether that seems large or small to you. I mean, at 4 bedrooms in the US, we had 2300 square feet, and some of our friends were like “Wow, how do you get by in such a tiny, tiny house?”

K: (laughs) Yeah, but everybody liked the layout because we had an open floor plan.

C: We did, yes.

K: I think an open floor plan. Because this also has—our apartment also has—an open floor plan.

C: Yes.

K: I love an open floor plan.

C: Which we specially ordered.

K: Yeah. I think it opens up the space and it makes the living space feel so much larger.

C: Yes.

K: And I feel like it gives me room to breathe.

C: Well, and it lets us be in separate rooms and still be able to see each other and talk to each other.

K: Yeah, so I really like it. But in terms of living in something I guess that is, what, two-thirds the size of the house in US—do you feel pinched? Do you feel cramped?

C: It’s less than half. But I still don’t feel cramped. I feel like the way that I understand private space has changed, and so things that I would have assumed needed to be done at home in the US, I just think “well, I would go out if I wanted to do that.”

K: Like what?

C: Like hosting a party.

K: Mmm. Yeah, we’ve never hosted a party in Japan.

C: No, and it’s very unusual. If I knew somebody was hosting a party at their place, unless it were like a housewarming party—

K: Mmhmm.

C: —where you’re just going over to give them a gift and see their place, I think it would be strange because that’s what the public spaces are for.

K: But when we first bought the place, I thought we were going to host barbecues, because we can see several fireworks shows from our balcony.

C: Yes.

K: (laughs) And then I just never ended up hosting any of them. How weird. It’s weird to me that I’ve never done a barbecue here. When one of the selling points of the apartment for me was I felt like I could still host parties.

C: Right. But we bought this relatively early in our stay in Japan.

K: Yeah, I think it was like a year into it?

C: Yeah, it was less than a year.

K: Okay, so I was still very American in my thinking.

C: Yeah, so we had just decided, yes we’re going to buy a place here, we’re going to own in Japan, even though we didn’t have permanent residency. And so sometimes that was stressful.

K: Yes.

C: But we have permanent residency now. But even the real estate agent told us “Oh, I don’t think it’s legal to own an apartment in Japan if you don’t have permanent residency.” (K laughs) And I told them “Yes, it is.” And they so “Oh, okay.”

K: Yeah.

C: So it’s hard to get a mortgage, but we rolled our California house into our Japan apartment, basically.

K: Yeah. So something that I find interesting, I’m thinking about my girlfriends, and a lot of my girlfriends have children, and so my office is a funner place to come, so they’ve never been to the house.

C: Right.

K: And then I have other girlfriends that because they have children it’s easier for me to go to their place or their neighborhood

C: Right.

K: And for my Japanese friends, it’s always easier to meet out, although I had a Japanese friend that used to come over for dinner quite often, and then we kind of have grown apart over the years as I got busier and they got busier. And your friends, you guys always meet out.

C: Yes.

K: And you know what I find interesting in Japan? I find that I’m not friends with couples. That I usually only meet one partner in a partnership.

C: Right.

K: In social settings. And I don’t get to know their significant other, whereas in the United States, we were friends with couples and families.

C: And you know, I don’t think that that’s just because we’re foreigners. Because I worked at a company for a long time that was about half Japanese workers and half foreign workers, and the Japanese people, their couples never came as a couple either.

K: Well, and we do have a couple of friends that we’re friends with the entire family unit.

C: Right.

K: But for the most part,

C: Yeah, for the most part it’s person-to-person meeting.

K: Well, and too, I have a lot of friends that I’ve met through the Black Women in Japan Facebook group.

C: Mmhmm, yes.

K: And so the reason that we’re hanging out is that we’re hanging out sistah-to-sistah. And you know just… it’s a sistah space. And so we don’t… it’s female energy. And so we don’t really invite our significant others into that female energy space, and it just felt really natural that when we broke off and hang out in pairs or in small groups that it’s just “us girls” kind of thing.

C: Oh my goodness.

K: What?

C: You exclude me because I’m not a black woman?

K: (laughs) No, I don’t exclude you because you’re not a black woman. You’re not excluded. You’re just not invited.

C: Ah, okay!

K: There’s a difference.

C: There is a difference.

K: And you don’t invite me to your ACCJ stuff.

C: No, I don’t.

K: American Chamber of Commerce in Japan.

C: No, I don’t. I used to—

K: Even though I used to be an ACCJ member.

C: Yeah. Yes.

K: (laughs) No, I joined the chamber before you did. So.

C: Yes you did. Your membership number was one lower than mine.

K: Yes it was. Thank you very much. No, I think I joined longer than that before you.

C: No, it was exactly one number lower. (K laughs)

K: So that’s their bad, because I think it was like six months between me joining and you joining.

C: No, it was simultaneous.

K: It was simultaneous?

C: It was simultaneous, yeah.

K: Oh. I didn’t know that. So you just never went to events?

C: I went to events. I didn’t go to the events you went to.

K: Okay.

C: Because you were trying to establish yourself as a business, and I was working for a different business.

K: Yes, that’s true.

C: And so if we show up as a couple, we’re very much seen as a couple.

K: Yes. Because that’s when I felt like my business was stable enough to introduce it to the world.

C: Right.

K: Because I’m a really private person. And so I was like “Hey, wait a minute though, I’m in business, and I shouldn’t be so private.”

C: Right. So you didn’t want to be known as “Chad and Kisstopher”.

K: Yeah, no, I didn’t want to be known as “Chad and Kisstopher”.

C: And we’re okay being Chad and Kisstopher, but we are separate people.

K: Yeah. Yeah. So we’re Chad and Kisstopher for the podcast, and we’re Chad and Kisstopher socially, but business-wise I’m very much Kisstopher because I’m a therapist. And so I think it’s important for people to know that you don’t know anything about my clients, you don’t know anything really about my business. Whereas our son, who is my office manager, does know because sometimes he helps clients find the office and he does all my invoicing, and he’s my office manager. So he does know. He knows quite a bit more about the business than you do. And quite a bit more about the clients, because you don’t know anything. Some of the clients he actually knows and helps because he does what we call “push-in” where he comes in and he’s there during the session because he interprets for me when I work with Japanese nationals.

C: Nice. And that’s why Google’s “busyfree” calendar is really nice, because you can just set your appointments and then I can see whether you have an appointment or not.

K: Yeah.

C: But not the details of it.

K: Yeah. And everybody has a code, so everybody gets a letter and a number, and sometimes the numbers can be anything between a 1 digit to a 3 digit number.

C: How dehumanizing.

(K laughs)

K: Which is exactly the point. So that—

C: Oh, okay

K: —you know, you can’t figure out who they are.

C: Well I’ve met a few of your clients, because they introduce themselves that way.

K: Oh, that’s nice.

C: Yeah. They say “Hi!” I say “…hi?” They introduce themselves and I’m like “…okay…” and they say “Your wife is my therapist!” And I’m like “Oh, great. I hope she’s helpful.” (K laughs) “Yes, she is. I wanted to tell you she’s wonderful.”

K: Oh that’s nice to know. Thank you for that. I think that’s a big thing that’s changed from the United States to Japan is that, I never ran into—well, maybe once in a while… it was really really rare that I would ever see a client out in the world in the United States. Because I had a practice in the United States as well. But here in Japan, living in Nagoya, it is really common that I would see clients out in the world, which is one of the reasons why I’m not longer a member of the ACCJ. Because the ACCJ is open to anyone who wants to join, not just Americans.

C: Right.

K: And, umm, sometimes people who are not even members of the ACCJ come to events.

C: Yes.

K: So anybody in Japan can come to an ACCJ event. So I find that it’s just easier for me to no longer be a member of the chamber because my rule of thumb is that if I walk into a space and I see a client there, I just leave.

C: Well, and I think too that the public transit centralizes a lot of things.

K: I think so.

C: So I know that I see people that I know out and about almost always at subway stations. Because there’s a limited number of stations downtown, for example, so if I’m headed downtown and somebody else is headed downtown at roughly the same time, we’re probably going to see each other.

K: Yeah, so I find that, in the United States, when I would be out in the public, I still felt very private.

C: Right. You’d almost never see people you knew.

K: Right, and so now, because I remember we were going out of town somewhere, and we were having like a private conversation—on a train platform, in a public space—and our friend tapped us on the shoulder and they were like “Hey, I was trying to get your guys’ attention, but you were so into talking to each other that you didn’t notice me.”

C: We were doing our cupcake thing.

K: (laughs) So, a friend said that they view our marriage as being in the cupcake phase. Which, I’m not quite sure what that means. Does that mean it’s still like sweet and warm and loving? Because I agree with that.

C: I agree with that. But maybe they were just like stealth saying “You guys are fat.”

K: (laughs) Which we are! Yeah, so do have snacks.

C: Yeah.

K: Snack cake is a thing in our life, and I love it. I love being big and round and fluffy.

C: We have a marriage with sprinkles.

K: I like it. I like how much we eat. I enjoy food. I like that our world is very sensual.

C: Yes. And I feel like Japan has kind of changed my view of what happens in public, and how people react.

K: Okay…

C: I find that people are not really emotional in public. Because “drunk on a Friday at night” does not count as emotional.

K: Well sometimes people cry on the subway.

C: Sometimes they do.

K: Yeah, but it’s very self-contained.

C: Yeah, it’s not a display. It’s not for other people. Because with such high population density here in Nagoya, at least you kind of have to…

K: Look away and give them their privacy.

C: Adopt a mentality that what’s going on around you is not really your business.

K: Yeah. But, for me, I feel like, strangely I’m more aware of how my actions impact people around me. More so than I was in the United States, and I find that it’s made me more polite, and kinder, and gentler. I’m a kinder, gentler Kisstopher.

C: Yeah?

K: Yeah. I feel like I’m way more compassionate, and I feel more connected to everybody in Nagoya. Like, I honestly, I feel connected to the entire population. And I care very much about whether or not I’m putting more bad than good into the world. And I don’t think I was that focused on like—because yeah, I want to be a force of good. I’ve always wanted to put good into the world, but really thinking about my day-to-day actions. Like microaggressions, overt aggression, just those kind of things on the person-to-person level.

C: Right.

K: So I find I’m much less aggressive.

C: That’s interesting. Yeah, I think I see a lot more people when I go out because there’s not the barrier of being in a private vehicle.

K: Yes.

C: So if I go out and I travel somewhere that’s not walking distance, I’m guaranteed to see at least 200 people.

K: Yeah. Do you think that that’s made you kinder, or more connected, or?

C: I think it’s made me much more aware of how people perceive my actions.

K: Mmhmm.

C: And it’s funny now, because it stopped, but when we moved here it used to be that all the subway trains had pictures up that said “Beware of Robbers” (K laughs) and it showed, like, a man with a beard and glasses and a hat

K: Yes (laughs).

C: Which is like my stock uniform, so.

K: Yeah.

C: It always felt a little bit like I was being picked on. Like

K: That you were being profiled.

C: Yeah, like “look at that guy, he’s the one that’s going to rob you.”

K: Yeah. So that’s something I was wondering about. So, for me, my whole life I’ve been aware of being a minority, and I’ve been aware that in some spaces I might be the only Blackness that people come in contact with. I might be the only African-American that they ever meet

C: Right

K: And so I have always felt the responsibility of how I behave in public as being, representing many more people than myself.

C: Yes.

K: Do you find, now that you’re a minority, has that shifted for you? Are you aware that you’re like representing all white guys in Japan?

C: Yes, I am. And that I am seen as a white guy in Japan. That I’m seen as something other.

K: Mmhmm.

C: I find that, like, in talking with Japanese people, there’s kind of a tension that goes along with it, until I mention that I’m married to an American.

K: Yeah.

C: And then that tension relaxes. Like, “Okay, you’re not married to a Japanese person.” And I know several couples who have been married for decades where one person is Japanese and one person is not, but I know that I encounter a lot of feeling among Japanese people that American men who marry Japanese women are bad people.

K: Yeah, out to exploit.

C: Yeah. So I definitely am aware that I am representing all white foreigners. In some sense. A friend of mine, who’s from Bangladesh, said “Yeah, I know that when I go out, they look at you, and you’re white, so they see an English teacher, and they look at me, and I’m brown, so they see a construction worker.”

K: Mmm.

C: Which are kind of the stereotypical professions.

K: You know it’s interesting when people find out I’m American. Because they have like, no idea. People mistake me for Brazilian or Middle-Eastern or Latin all the time. And that’s been my whole life, people don’t really know which category I fit in. And as soon as they find out that I’m American, they assume that I’m an English teacher.

C: Mmhmm.

K: And I tell them, “No, I’m a therapist.” They’re like, “How is that possible?” (laughs)

C: How is that possible? No foreigners have any problems.

K: Right! No, I get the other thing, where they’re like “Oh, thank goodness someone is here helping all the foreigners with their massive problems.” Because the standard Japanese thing has been—a lot of my clients tell me that as soon as they have problems, their Japanese friends tell them “go home”.

C: Right.

K: Like, “mmm, you gotta go, you’re not you’re not doing okay.” So, but that’s a topic for another cast. So for me I find that it is really freeing to not be an English teacher, although I have taught English. Because it allows people to immediately get out of that mindset that they know everything about me as soon as they know my country of origin.

C: Right.

K: Do you experience that?

C: Yeah, I do experience that. And so when people ask me what I do, I’m like “well, that’s a complicated answer. Mostly I”

K: No, it’s not. You’re a writer.

C: Yeah, but I haven’t always been a writer, so I’ve done a variety of things here in Japan.

K: Yeah, and none of them have been complicated, love.

C: Not at the time. (K laughs)

K: Your history is not complicated! Everything you’ve done has been very straightforward.

C: No, I’m mysterious.

K: No, you were a PhD student, and then you were an editor, and then you were the office manager, and then you were a writer.

C: I was the operations manager.

K: Oh, operations manager.

C: The office manager had a much harder job than me.

K: Yeah, sorry, I always mix that up. So yeah, operations manager. All of those are like really straightforward, babe.

C: Yeah, I guess they’re straightforward.

K: (laughs) And now you’re a writer.

C: But it’s confusing to people, so when people, especially when Japanese people ask me what I do and I tell them that I write, and they say “well, why do you speak Japanese the way that you do?” And I say “Well, I did my PhD here in Japan”, and they go “Ohhh. Okay okay.” Because apparently I sound… I don’t know.

K: Educated?

C: No. Not like a jackass, but like … umm, like I live at the university.

K: So you sound like

C: Stiff and formal.

K: Oh, okay.

C: And they say “I know what those words mean, but nobody says them.” So it’s like “Well, I can’t help it. That’s the way I learned.” Whereas our son is very natural.

K: Mm, yeah. Our son does sound very natural. Because he culture switches.

C: Right.

K: Code switches.

C: Right. I mean, I’m always American. I understand the Japanese stuff, and you know, I can hand out a business card. I can make a bow, and I can introduce myself, but I think people are still always conscious that I am American.

K: Yeah. So another way that… being a minority, another way that being Japan has changed me is that I can be an invisible minority by simply putting on a pair of glasses.

C: Yes.

K: Which, sunglasses, specifically. And that is so interesting to me. That I can be Japanese and treated like I’m Japanese by just putting on a pair of sunglasses. And then I’m no longer a minority.

C: Mmhmm.

K: And, it’s a trip.

C: Yes.

K: And I didn’t know it. A friend of mine told me “there’s nothing about you that identifies you as not Japanese.”

C: Yes.

K: I was like, “What are you talking about?” They said “aside from your eyes, like if you put on a pair of sunglasses, I would just think you’re Japanese.” And I’m like “Well, don’t I dress American?” And they said “You dress kind of weird, but there are a lot of people in Japan who dress weird.”

C: Yes, there are areas that are known for dressing weird.

K: Yeah, and so I’m seen like alternative.

C: Mmhmm.

K: So kind of like punk rock. So, that’s cool. I like the fact that I’m punk rock.

C: With those hazel eyes. Just you’re not Japanese.

K: Yeah, no, not at all. Nothing about my eyes are Japanese. The shape, nothing. So it’s really interesting that in Japan I almost never get discriminated against.

C: Yeah, that is interesting.

K: Yeah, it’s a weird phenomenon for me.

C: It was weird for me when I realized that I was being discriminated against, in Japan.

K: How did that change you?

C: I think it made me a lot more compassionate towards people who experience discrimination and decide not to fight that fight right then.

K: Mm, yeah.

C: Because I grew up with like, an intellectual understanding of discrimination. I grew up Mormon, and so I heard all the time, “Oh, we’re being persecuted.” And every once in a while, somebody would like break into the church and like, graffiti stuff, so like it wasn’t completely baseless, but I grew up being told “You’re being singled out for bad treatment”, and then when I moved to California I realized that just really wasn’t true. That as a white guy I just walked around with a lot of privilege? Sorry if that word bothers anybody, but that’s what it was. And here I’ve kind of lost that, so… white Americans are a model minority here, so I do have—among foreigners—a favored status but it’s still not seen as the equal of the Japanese.

K: Yeah. And I understand being a model minority because I am mixed and so, being mixed, I am rather light skinned, and because of colorism some people value the color of my skin. And because of that value, I am a model minority. For some people. Still a minority, but a model minority. And I am aware of all of the privilege that comes with that. And I am very… my whole life… any time I’ve had an opportunity to use the privilege I have—and I think everybody has privilege in some space—

C: On some axis, yes.

K: Yeah, and so, for me, I’m always careful to lend my privilege when I can. And to speak out. But that doesn’t mean that I fight every battle. And I really, I let most microaggression go just because it’s easier to go about my day. It’s quicker to just write it off than to cope with it, and that used to drive you bananas.

C: It used to. Because when we got together, I was like “But that was racism! We should go, like fight that, we should sue them, we should whatever,” and you were like “just let it go. Just let it go and let me have my day.” And I learned to let it go, but it wasn’t until we moved here that I really learned why you choose to just let it go. How exhausting it is to constantly be

K: To fight every battle.

C: Yeah.

K: It is fatigue. Just straight up fatigue.

C: That sometimes you have to pick them and say “This one’s not worth it.”

K: Yes. And I know some people that fight every battle, and they have my mad respect, and just mad crazy props on that. Because I just don’t have the energy, and I admit that that is a weakness in me. Because I do think every microaggression is worthy of the battle. I just choose not to fight it.

C: Mmhmm.

K: That may be upsetting to some people, and I’m sorry if it upsets you or hurts your feelings. That’s not my intention. My intention is that I’m just not bringing that toxicity into my day any further than that moment. But race and all that in Japan is a different cast. This is about how Japan has changed us. So, for me, that’s like a broadening of your mindset. And I do feel that living in Japan has broadened my mindset.

C: I think that’s a good word. Because it hasn’t changed it. I haven’t lost my mindset. I’ve just gained an additional one. So now I have multiple perspectives within myself for different situations.

K: Yeah. For me, like the biggest change in my perspective is the one on immigration. In the United States, when I was living in California in the United States, I don’t feel like people really explained to me what the immigration process was. And so I don’t feel like all of my opinions were based on any sort of knowledge of how hard it is to immigrate, and how much money it costs to immigrate. Because in California, in the Bay Area, we have this image of people coming across in boats and coming across with nothing. And coming across with no money.

C: Right.

K: And that’s just not the case. Nobody gets to immigrate for free. Nobody gets to immigrate for no money. There are people who are snuck into the country illegally, but they’re paying thousands and thousands of dollars to be snuck into the country illegally. And risking their life to do so. And then for people who immigrate legally, it costs thousands and thousands of dollars. There’s no free way to immigrate. So, that was quite shocking to me. And also what was sacrificed in terms of education and history and work experience, because when I first came to Japan, even though I had practiced in the United States, nothing transferred.

C: Right. Everybody said that “that wasn’t in Japan.”

K: Yes. And “you don’t have any experience working with foreigners living in Japan.” Everything was “in Japan”. “You have no experience working with kids in Japan.” And so I was very fortunate that I was very fortunate that I was able to find that first client who was willing to take a chance on me. And it was an individual who was living as a shut-in. They’re called hikkikomori here in Japan, and allow me to work with them, but I lost everything by immigrating. And it took a lot of years to get it back and a lot of re-education.

C: Right.

K: And so I was really humbled by the experience of everything I had lost. And really looking back at some of my past behaviors and some of my past political positions, quite ashamed of my behavior.

C: It makes it a lot easier to understand, for example, why somebody could immigrate to the US and be there for 20 years and still not speak English.

K: Yes. (laughs) On that one, yes. Because my Japanese is busted.

C: Because, you know, we had a gardener in the US, and he spoke English, but none of the people he sent out did. And he said “I’m turning this business over to somebody who bought it, and I’m moving back to Mexico.” But for most of his employees, they didn’t need English to get by in their daily life.

K: And I don’t need Japanese to get by in my daily life. And most of my clients speak English. And the ones who don’t, I have an interpreter.

C: Yeah, so it made it easier to see kind of how isolating that lack of language can be but also how you can get in a rut of just not needing the language.

K: I think too if you look at, like, hours worked. You know, because I look at how many hours I’m working, and I’m sorry, I just not have the energy to—in addition to earning my PhD and running my business and having a life—to make it to Japanese class. I study Japanese independently, but going to a formal class, I just don’t have it. And my Japanese friends do not value my Japanese.

C: No.

K: They want to speak to me in English.

C: Yes, they do.

K: So I find that nobody values my Japanese. (laughs) And that’s okay. It’s busted, so I get it, but you really have to—at least in Nagoya—you have to be quite forceful if you just want to speak Japanese. Because I know our son does that. He just refuses to speak English in Japanese spaces.

C: Yes.

K: So how’s your Japanese?

C: My Japanese is middling. So I can get by, so daily life I can read enough to know what bills are, I can… you know, it’s probably at the junior-high level, maybe.

K: Mmm. Yeah, mine’s definitely elementary.

C: So I can have basic conversations, but if you want to talk about something complicated—except for math, where it’s good—then my Japanese is not great. So if people want to switch to English and their English is good, it’s like “Okay, yes let’s switch to English because we’ll be able to have a better conversation.”

K: Yeah.

C: So I find that, for me, most of my conversations are in English, but occasionally—especially at work there were people I’d have conversations in Japanese with. Like the place I worked, the accountant didn’t really speak English, so we would speak in Japanese. But then dealing with my limited understanding sometimes he’d need to explain things. So, you know, I’d like it to get better, but…

K: Yeah, I’d like it to get better. Something I’m proud of when I look back at my history is I supported it in California when the DMV wanted to have driving manuals in various languages. And I supported it. And now I’m so happy I did. Because I am so grateful for all of the romaji and all of the English that is available here in Japan.

C: Yes.

K: And I know that the two are completely unrelated, supporting there being multiple paperwork in multiple languages in the United States, but just recently I had to get a form from the bank and I was so happy when that form was in English, because I was able to verify that this was the form I needed. And so…

C: And you would have had to have paid for a translation otherwise.

K: Yeah. And so it’s really. Well, no because our son would have did it, but I guess technically I’m paying for it because he would have did it during his working hours, because that would have been part of his work, so yeah I’m paying for it. But it is nice to have access to English. And I think there is a lot of English available, but for me I no longer feel that it’s my right to have English. And I feel like it’s a gift every time there’s like an English menu available I feel like it’s a gift. Every time there’s paperwork in English I feel like it’s a gift. And I think before living outside of the United States, I don’t think I would have understood just the relief that it provides in my day-to-day living to have access to my native language.

C: Right. And I was in Tokyo recently, and they’ve started making subway announcements in Japanese, English, Chinese, and Korean.

K: Oh, nice.

C: In preparation for the Olympic games. So those are coming to Tokyo in 2020, so a lot of stuff is like “We’re going to do these minimal things in multiple languages for the Olympics.”

K: Nice.

C: Yeah, it’s nice to be able to hear the stop name in English. I can understand the Japanese now, but I remember when we arrived it was a matter of counting stops

K: (laughs) Yes! Hanging out that window.

C: The stop name is not written in English and it’s not said in English, so how many stops? Okay, is this three or four?

K: Yeah.

C: And exploring that, so I think that being in Japan has made me much more adventurous, and willing to try new things.

K: Yes.

C: More willing to just get lost and trust that we’ll be able to find our way back home.

K: Yes. So, for me, I find that it’s in some ways solidified who I am, and in other ways I feel like it’s caused me to evolve and have a deeper understanding and more compassionate and be a more compassionate person and just live a compassion-filled and compassion-focused life. And I really enjoy that. And I enjoy meeting people from all over the world. When we lived in California, I did have friends from all around the world, but I wasn’t also an immigrant.

C: Right.

K: And so it was kind of different. I feel like now I have a deeper access point. And I think too, doing therapy with people from around the world and seeing how different things are expressed, and how different things are felt, and experienced, I really do have a deeper understanding of the variation in experience when experience and culture meet. And I just feel really really fortunate and really really lucky to have been born in the United States, because that was just luck of the draw. It was completely happenstance, and to have freedom of movement. You know? And my heart goes out to anyone who’s in a refugee situation and is trapped in their country and wants to get out. And so I look at in those situations, we really do. I don’t know. Something needs to be done about how borders are done in the world, so that people aren’t trapped in those really horrible situations.

C: Yeah, I agree. I have a lot more compassion for that. I know how much it cost us to move to Japan and become permanent residents.

K: Yes.

C: In terms of both time and money and constriction, so

K: And worry.

C: And worry. You know, I worked at the same job for 5 years. Decent company, I’m not complaining about the company.

K: They’re a great company.

C: A great company, yes. But, you know, I needed that time working there at one company to be able to qualify for permanent residency.

K: Yeah, having five consecutive years.

C: And I know that Japan is not the worst on that. I have friends in Korea who say that your visa is tied to your job

K: And in the United States

C: And in the Unites States your visa is tied to your job. So if you quit your job you have to get a new visa. Japan isn’t like that. Your visa is tied to your profession, but not to your job. But if you want permanent residency you have to stay a long time at one job. And just the freedom of being able to switch now is like a sigh of relief. But it also gives me a lot of compassion for people who are stuck in their jobs. Whether they’re stuck in their job in the US because of health insurance or they’re stuck because of immigration or you know, family circumstance or whatever.

K: Yeah.

C: Whatever it is. I also feel like I’m much more compassionate now than I was when we moved here.

K: Yeah, because I do have, I agree that I just have a much deeper understanding what being stuck means and how people get stuck. Because things that seem like amazing opportunities—I’ve seen people come over here and get stuck.

C: Yes.

K: And so, you know, for me, I really have a better understanding that everybody is bringing their history with them, and that we can’t know. That if we were just to write down some basic facts about people, like where they live, what they do for a living, all of that, it really doesn’t tell us anything about that person.

C: No, it doesn’t.

K: And so for me, I just try to be compassionate in all of my interactions. Compassion first.

C: Yeah. I think for me a lot of that is living in Japan and having that second perspective. Some of that is just getting older.

K: Yes. So much older. (laughs) So I think that’s a great place to end the cast, and thank you for listening. And yeah, we’re just more compassionate now. That’s the number one way Japan has changed both of us.

C: And after the next cast, we will be even older, so we’ll be even more compassionate (K laughs). Bye bye.

K: Bye.