K: So, lately I’ve been thinking about people who are freaking out about living and working at home with their spouse and calling it like… like – so, a friend of ours – and I’m not gonna say who – on the righteous, their house is crowded. But their house is crowded because a parent lives with them, and they’re both adults. So, it’s not code for… like – they’re both very comfortable. They both have good jobs. But… one of the parents lives with them, and that parent is – I’m sorry, but I feel – petty and vindictive and does things to hurt their child. And these are all adults. Like, these are people in their 40s and 50s, and a parent in their 70s. So, them – I get like the whole “we’re cramped.”

And then we have… another friend who… I’m going to call Puddin. Puddin is feeling just oh so up under it all for different reasons because they do live with their parents and their servants. And it just all feels too crowded. And then – but then we have, like, our friends who are like us. Who are just two married adults who feel like they’re choking each other. Like, just knowing that their spouse is in the house is oppressive to them. And these are people that have like 5-bedroom houses. Like, 2 story 5-bedroom houses that can’t take the thought of their spouse being upstairs or in the backyard or something.

C: I know that, when we go to a hotel, I always feel like, “there are people in the next room over breathing. Too much. Stop breathing.”

K: Really?

C: No, not really. That would be silly.

K: Oh, okay. I thought, “that was weird. You’ve never said this to me.”

C: (laughs)

K: Who are you? Like, what are you talking about? Yes, there are people in the other room breathing.

C: I think it’s a mental space issue because I’ve never heard the same people who complain about… being cooped up… you know, with their spouse in a space large enough to physically avoid each other – if that’s what you want

K: Yeah.

C: And they mostly don’t want that. But they just feel like they can’t ever get away. But if they were at a hotel, I think they wouldn’t feel that way.

K: So, lately I’ve been suffering from disappointment that we don’t actually have more time together. But, granted, my commute is 10 minutes. And so, like, I guess we have like 20 more minutes together?

C: It’s hard to say because I start work at about 7 am most days, and

K: But I’m… I don’t – so, my work is just so variable.

C: Your work is very variable.

K: And I don’t – I don’t talk to you before I go to work.

C: No.

K: It’s like a thing.

C: Yeah.

K: Because I’m in therapy mode, and I’m already thinking about my clients and mapping out and like – there’s a whole bunch of pre-work that every therapist has to do before every session. We have to read our notes. We have to plan out the day. We have to, you know, think what we expect to be on the clients’ mind. We have to read any updates clients have sent us – which not my favorite thing, but a lot of clients like to do it. So, you just kind of have to know your own self on… on who you can say yes to doing that to, and who you’re like, “no thank you.” But there’s a lot of work that goes into preparing to be a therapist for the day. And especially when I – dealing with chronic pain and such. Because even now, talking about it, my pain just shuts down. Like, the pain center of my brain shuts down, and I’m like

C: Your brain is just like, “okay, we’re in talking mode. I’m going to hush up and let you talk.”

K: No, see, I’m not in talking mode. My brain’s in “I’m taking up space.”

C: Ah, okay.

K: So, I retreat and don’t take up space. And that’s – like, anyone who feels bad that their therapist is not taking up emotional space, please do not put that burden on your therapist. They’re not supposed to.

C: That’s the gig.

K: Yeah, it’s the gig. So, I tell everybody that starts caring about me too much, “yo, it’s the gig.” Like, I’m disabled, and I’m a therapist. The two rarely interact. And when they interact, I apologize to the client, but it’s life.

C: Yeah.

K: You know. So, I don’t feel like we’ve been getting any extra time together.

C: No, we definitely have not been.

K: I thought there would be like this bonanza of time.

C: No. We – we definitely have not had extra time together.

K: Because I don’t talk to you in between clients. And it’s rare that I do – like, we’ve talked about it before.

C: Right.

K: And so, you finish work… like… 5 to 6 hours before I do sometimes?

C: Yeah, that’s right.

K: And… you stay in your half of the house because… that’s

C: Hello, you’re doing therapy.

K: Yeah.

C: I can’t just wander around.

K: (laughs)

C: Like, “no, no. Please continue talking about your grief. I’m going to make some sandwiches.”

K: Yeah, but no during like – in the evening, you make yourself something to eat, and then you go back to your room. Or you order yourself something to eat, and then we time it.

C: That’s – that’s always tricky with timing it.

K: Yes.

C: I do like to order things to eat, but it is always tricky because you have half-hour gaps, and if I order it to arrive in that gap, and things are late…

K: Depending on who the client is.

C: Yeah.

K: Sometimes, I tell the client, “my husband’s ordered food, is that cool?” Or I actually ask the client before you ever do it. “Hey, if my husband orders food, is that cool?” And it’s usually clients that get deliveries during… like, I have clients

C: Oh, yeah. Okay.

K: That schedule everything – that see me on their day off, so they schedule everything, and their vibe is cool with it. Because I don’t care if somebody gets something at the door.

C: Right. Because the way that you’re set up, you’re the one with the button to open the door for anybody making deliveries.

K: Yes. Because you have to have the toilet on your side.

C: Exactly. And so, if we have a package delivery, then there’s an area in our apartment building where they can be left securely for each apartment. The… I don’t know if American apartments have this nowadays, but they’re basically lockboxes that your key opens up the right one for you. But food doesn’t work that way. They can’t just leave it down there.

K: Yeah.

C: I have tried. I have been like,

K: “Just put it at the door.”

C: “Just put the pizza in the box. I’ll come down and get it.”

K: (laughs)

C: But no, alas, no. They won’t.

K: Because the pizza’s already paid for.

C: Yes.

K: And, in Japan, you cannot tip.

C: Right.

K: So, it’s against the law. They can’t accept tips.

C: It is not against the law, but it is against company policies.

K: Yeah. So, when we first got here, people would fight us off like, “stop trying to give me money. This is so awkward.”

C: Yeah. “Don’t make me look like a thief to my company.”

K: Yeah. So, that was weird. But then the living wage is higher. The minimum wage is higher. That’s not what this is about. So, do you feel trapped? And crowded?

C: No, I don’t feel trapped. I think we’ve talked about it before – I have a whole nap set up.

K: Yeah.

C: So, I could take a nap. I have my computer, obviously, because that’s what I use to work. So… if I’m not working – which I’m doing often: I am a person who works. No shame to anybody who doesn’t. But if I’m not working, I can play video games, I can read books, I can take a nap. The only thing I can’t do is get food unless we have discussed when you will be having a gap, so I can get myself some food.

K: Yeah. And then I come and confirm and be like, “hey.”

C: Right.

K: And I’ll come and check on you if you haven’t eaten. I’ll be like, “hey. You want food?” And you’re like, “well, little do you know, I’ve been to 7/11 today.” (laughs)

C: Yes.

K: That’s always the weirdest part to me. When you’ve left the house several times throughout the day because I really – I don’t leave my side of the house.

C: Right.

K: At all when I’m doing therapy. Because, when I’m doing therapy, there’s usually – I’m getting emails in, or there’s paperwork. There’s a lot of stuff that I do – there’s continuing education.

C: Yeah.

K: There’s a lot of stuff that goes into being a therapist. It’s a lot of work. And on the days when I’m really sick, sometimes, I have to physically lay down in between clients. And it’s gotten… recently, I’ve had to lay down while treating clients and do voice only. Not being on the screen. I have several clients that are voice only already – that they prefer not to be filmed. And I completely respect that boundary.

C: Yeah.

K: So, I don’t have any issues.

C: I think, even though the APA and the Japanese Psychological Association have come out and clarified that you’re not violating privacy by using video apps, some people are still very wary of them.

K: Yeah. And some people just have a messy house. And some people… don’t want to have to… get dressed.

C: Mm. Yeah. I wasn’t even thinking about that.

K: Like, I know in particular I have one client that does their sessions in the nude.

C: Okay.

K: And… they know – I’m a nudist, and they know I’m a nudist.

C: Right.

K: And… they’ve told me that they’re completely fine with me doing the sessions nude as well. But they’re not going to be on camera. And I told them, “well, I don’t think it would be appropriate”

C: Appropriate.

K: “For us to be naked on camera because we’re not – we have not done therapy in the nude” – and you’ve asked that I not do therapy in the nude.

C: I have asked that, yes.

K: Yeah. And so, for me… in case anybody’s wondering; yes, there are therapists who are not sex therapists who are just nudist who do therapy who live in nudist colonies. And… you would see your therapist naked.

C: Yeah. I guess that would happen. It’d be weird. You’d be like, “I’m going to be naked everywhere except in the one place where I’m supposed to be most vulnerable.”

K: Yeah.

C: “And there I shall put on my armor.”

K: Yeah. And so… it would be like, what are you hiding?

C: Right.

K: Why aren’t you feeling safe?

C: Yeah. I don’t know if anybody who I work with works naked, but if they do, they are… they’ve put on clothes before they come on camera for meetings, so.

K: Yeah. So, I just thought it was interesting that someone told me.

C: That is interesting that somebody told you.

K: Yeah. And I told them that I’m not naked because… I told them honestly that I’m not naked because it’s too much of a transition for me to go from nude to clothed for my mentality and my mindset.

C: Mm.

K: And so, for consistency of care… I get dressed.

C: I know that, when I was doing some market research – which is a thing I do sometimes for my job – after the… quarantine started, there was – the number of shirts sold doubled, but the number of pants sold dropped off sharply.

K: Mm.

C: So, people are just putting on a nice shirt for their Zoom stuff but wearing pajama bottoms – presumably – for other stuff. And I think (gasp) what a good idea.

K: I wear sweatpants.

C: Yeah.

K: I don’t wear… pajama pants, but I do wear sweatpants.

C: Mhm.

K: But it’s rare – sometimes, I have to get up – if I forget my water. I get very dry mouthed.

C: Right.

K: So… I always have to have lots of water.

C: I just think we have a relatively… small apartment – by American standards.

K: So, what is it in square feet?

C: Our apartment is about 900 square feet.

K: Now what is that in centimeters? Because we have an international listening – an international following – on the podcast. So, Americans need the imperial system.

C: Right.

K: And the rest of the world needs to know what it is in metric.

C: It’s about 87 square meters. So, for Japan it’s fairly large.

K: Yeah.

C: For other parts of the world, it’s not that large. It depends on where you’re art. If you’re listening to this from Switzerland, it might be like huge. If you’re listening to this from… somewhere

K: If you’re from Australia, it’s tiny.

C: Right.

K: If you’re listening to us from… San Francisco, it’s average – it’s pretty big. But if you’re listening to us from San Jose, in the same state of California, it’s tiny.

C: Yeah.

K: So. But for us, it’s comfy.

C: It’s comfy. Yeah.

K: Yeah.

C: But I never feel like we’re on top of each other. And maybe it’s because we have so many… doors.

K: But even when we’re in the same room, I don’t feel like you’re on top of me.

C: Well, I mean… Twitter after dark, but.

K: Yeah.

C: Other than that, no.

K: When you’re on top of me, I feel like you’re on top of me.

C: That’s what I’m saying. Like… yeah. But.

K: Like, right now, I feel like we’re across the room from each other, and there’s probably like maybe a foot between us?

C: At the shortest point, yeah. There’s about… yeah, a foot.

K: So, it feels like across the room to me.

C: Maybe that’s because we each have our own mental space. So, I can be very much in my mental space, and you can be in your mental space. And

K: Say that again.

C: I think we each have our own mental space.

K: Yeah.

C: And we are respectful of each other’s mental spaces. And the way that our relationship and our – and our minds work, we’re not constantly checking in.

K: What do you mean we’re respectful of each other’s mental space? Like, how much room does your mind need?

C: My mind is infinite. It needs the whole world.

K: (laughs) Because I – we have never. We’ve talked about emotional space, but mental space? Like, what are you talking about?

C: Okay, so like, mental space is like right now… and we try to sound edit this out, so you probably can’t hear it. But there is an air conditioner going. There’s an analog clock ticking. There’s the hum of the refrigerator. There’s

K: Okay, that’s – you expressing that you’re autistic, in my mind, because I can hear none of these things. Like, I can hear the aircons. 

C: Right.

K: But the clock ticking, you know I cannot hear my clock ticking.

C: Well, and you’re hard of hearing, which we’ve talked about before. And…

K: Yes.

C: You are not ashamed of.

K: But I can tell you all of the smells in the house.

C: Right. So, what I’m saying is that I can shut all of those out – just kind of tune them out – to where I don’t feel like… “ugh, why are you making noise to invade my space?” But I have friends who feel like… people make noise to get their attention. And that’s their thing. Like, the other person has to be absolutely silent, or it’s a cry for attention.

K: Okay, so that’s abusive. That’s emotionally abusive.

C: It’s not actually a cry for attention. It’s just the person feels that way, and it’s an ongoing issue where they

K: So, to me, if y’all can’t work that out – I’m calling you emotionally abusive.

C: Wow. Okay.

K: So, like with the smell thing.

C: Yeah.

K: So… Chad’s autistic and has more sensory issues than I do. I don’t… which is weird because my tactile sensory is much more sensitive than his, and my olfactory sensory is much more sensitive than his. And my visual acuity is much more sensitive than his. So, when we’re talking about… sensory sensitivity, it’s about how my brain interprets that, and whether or not – how much it would take to overload my senses.

C: Right.

K: And so, the sensory load – Chad’s sensory load capacity is much lower than my sensory load capacity in all of them. And then he has very acute sensory needs. That are very specific and special. Like, with the – before we bought the aircons, we went and listened – well, he listened. I stood next to him in a loving, supporting way, pretending like I can hear the stuff he’s talking about.

C: (laughs)

K: He knew I was pretending, but he likes me to pretend I can hear stuff sometimes. I was like, “yeah. Yeah, babe, I can hear that. Totally. Whichever one you like. Just – let’s just keep moving. You don’t like this one.” And you were like, “I can’t tell if it’s this one or this one.” And I’m like, “we can do this all day, babe. All day.” Because me, I’m just standing, in the summer, under air conditioners. So, I’m like, I’m cool and relaxed. And if it gets to be too much, I’ll go sit in a massage chair.

C: Yeah. And throw off the whole aural landscape.

K: Yes.

C: Like, ugh, can you not hear the squeezing going on?

K: Yes. And so, like… as soon as Chad feels comfortable exploring a sensory space to determine whether or not that sensory space would be positive for him, I usually leave because my breathing is distracting. (laughs) Like, the sound of my breathing. So, I know that the sound of my breathing becomes a distraction, and so I leave because there are times where I’m just breathing normally, and he’s like, “are you okay?” Because I have a weird… I have a weird breathing pattern. I don’t know how to breathe deeply unless I’m speaking.

And then, like that, I breathe randomly very deeply. But I’m a shallow breather. And it has to do with my whole – my medical stuff. Like, go listen to our medical stuff if you want. My point in explaining all of this is that, why don’t people put this much effort into getting to know their partner before quarantine? Like, if you lived with – if you moved in for quarantine, completely get why y’all are getting on each other’s nerves.

C: Right.

K: But if you’ve lived with somebody for 15, 20 years, why don’t you know these things about them? Like, Chad knows… that he needs different toothpaste than me. Because we don’t appreciate the way each other uses the toothpaste tube.

C: I don’t appreciate the brand you use, either. So.

K: Yeah, you don’t like the baking soda.

C: No. Like, eww, no.

K: I don’t know why you brush your teeth with sugar.

C: Because it’s yummy.

K: Yeah. If your toothpaste is yummy

C: (laughs) I don’t use the bubblegum toothpaste, okay. I use adult toothpaste.

K: You do. But you liked Rasta’s baby toothpaste, and I was like, “no. Rasta needs to man up.”

C: (laughs)

K: Rasta was like 5 years old, and I was like, “no. Rasta needs to man up and use real toothpaste.” And so… Rasta uses the same toothpaste brand as you.

C: Yes.

K: Even though I think he should use my toothpaste brand. Because mine has whitening

C: Well, you actually think everybody should use Mentadent, but they discontinued that, so.

K: Yes. I think you should brush your teeth with peroxide.

C: Mhm.

K: And baking soda. To get the whitest teeth possible.

C: And I don’t particularly care about how white my teeth are. So many of them are fake.

K: You have a bridge.

C: Yeah, that’s what I was just saying. So many of them are fake. They don’t really change color.

K: Well, and now that I have an implant, I’m not as fixated.

C: Mhm.

K: On my teeth color. Now, I’m just trying to keep them all even. But I own like a bunch of teeth – I have this new obsession with collecting teeth whitening.

C: Yes.

K: At home.

C: Yes. We have several – several different kits in the fridge.

K: Yeah. So, one that’s not refrigerated – I only have two. One brand that’s not refrigerated – doesn’t require refrigeration – and one that requires refrigeration. And I have two different – I’ve had the molds for my teeth made two different times to go with the different brands. But I used it, and it didn’t whiten my teeth evenly. And that freaked me out. I had a white dot. Chad could not see it, but I could. And I was like, “it’s not going to do it evenly because my tooth aren’t smooth.”

C: You eventually pointed to it enough that I was like, “okay, I can see it.”

K: No, you just give in and lie to me.

C: I didn’t say I saw it. I said I

(laughter)

K: And so, if you’ve been with somebody – living with them for 20 years – know they’re going to follow you around the house saying, “okay, but can you see it in this lighting?”

C: (laughs)

K: “Come look in this lighting.” And know that when you can’t take it anymore, instead of freaking out and yelling at them, and having a meltdown about it – being like, “okay. This will be the lighting that I will be like yes this magical lighting showed me the difference that you’re pointing to.”

C: Yeah. And you put up with me – it doesn’t happen now – but when we first got married, CRT monitors were still in use. People didn’t have all LCDs and such.

K: Yeah.

C: And I’d be like, “the monitor is screaming. I have to go turn it off.” I’d wake up in the middle of the night. “I left the monitor on in the office. I have to go turn it off.” You’d be like, “what are you talking about?” “You can’t hear it screaming? It’s like the screams of the damned. I need to go release them from hell.”

K: And then I would soothe you when you came back.

C: Yeah.

K: But the things of like… being angry that someone’s in the kitchen the same time as you. There’s never been a time… unless we’re fighting about something else – a fight has never started because we’re both in the kitchen.

C: Right. I think it’s interesting because I think that you and I have always been very, very aware of each other’s boundaries.

K: Mmm.

C: And so, I think – and this is a theory – that the people who are finding it hard were not really paying attention to each other’s boundaries. They would just kind of stay far enough apart that… that didn’t – the violation didn’t happen. And it’s not violation in like a negative… way. Just in a… like, stepping closer to somebody than is comfortable to them.

K: So… maybe – I have a different theory.

C: Okay, yeah. I saw that you had a different theory, so I’m going to stop talking – leave the people hanging as to what my theory is – and hear yours.

K: (laughs) Which I feel like the listeners enjoy our dynamic because I

C: That’s why they listen.

K: I interrupt you so much. And I think (laughs) I think if you were someone who doesn’t like to be interrupted – it’s part of me being hard of hearing. I literally don’t – if I’m not looking at Chad’s mouth – I can’t tell. And, like, right now his face is in too much shadow. And his mustache – he needs to cut his mustache because it’s completely covering his top lip. It’s almost – it’s touching his bottom lip. Like, I’m freaked out that he hasn’t cut it.

C: I cut it three days ago.

K: I know your mustache grows incredibly fast, and I know that you are oppressed by it.

C: Yes, thank you.

K: And I appreciate you not shaving it off. But I feel like, shaving it off, you would just put yourself fin a lot of pain, and it would be back in three days.

C: I think it would look weird. I know that it’s a style, but I think it would look weird to shave my mustache. Because I’m not gonna do the beard.

K: You can’t do the beard.

C: Right.

K: I will freak out if you do the beard. You know you have to leave until it grows back.

C: Yeah.

K: I never want to see your chin.

C: (laughs)

K: Don’t even joke about it. But the mustache, I would be cool if you wanted to do that beard with no mustache because I know how bad your mustache oppresses you. But I think… that would be so painful. And you would have to shave twice a day.

C: Yeah, I would.

K: And I just don’t see that being…

C: No. That’s not

K: Pleasurable.

C: No. It’s not. So, you were saying.

K: I have no idea what I was saying.

C: Okay. I was saying my theory about the fact that you and I have both been always very aware of each other’s boundaries, so we’ve worked out how to be really close to each other without being… in violation of each other’s boundary rules.

K: Okay.

C: Like, in a very friendly way. But… for example, we’ve been married a long time. You like to grab my butt. I like to grab yours.

K: Yeah.

C: But there are signals of “now is not the time.”

K: Yeah.

C: And we don’t – we don’t do it when those signals are being given off.

K: Correct.

C: I think that a lot of people who are now living together… those things happen so infrequently that they never sat down and said, “okay. Actually, I don’t like it when you do it at that point. I like it generally, but here’s an indicator I would not enjoy it.”

K: Mhm.

C: And now they’re – the frequency of contact means that it’s happening… enough that it’s rising to the level of “why are you doing this to me.”

K: Mm. So, not enough people… have spent enough time – so, maybe this is because I’m a therapist. And maybe this is because I know that you’re autistic, and… I cut my teeth in therapy – my very first client was an autistic child. And touch and the way that they liked to be touched and all of that is very important. And knowing their boundaries and respecting their boundaries in terms of being able to build a rapport.

C: Yeah.

K: And… then to me, it just seemed like, “why aren’t we doing this with everyone? Like, why wouldn’t I treat everyone in my life this way and ask?” Because I was just – to me, I was blown away by how many things I was assuming.

C: Mm.

K: And I was… just like really – I didn’t like that person. All those assumptions I was making about everyone I was coming in contact with because when I was… aware of – I’ve been aware of the five senses my whole life. I’ve been sensitive to smell my whole life. I have… even though my vision – now I wear glasses – I still have a certain visual acuity that you don’t have. And visual processing that you don’t have. And… I’m hard of hearing, but there’s certain pitches. So, everyone has the same five senses, or… has a specific sense that they don’t have. Or a grouping of senses that they don’t have. And even if they don’t have those senses, they still have preferences.

C: Well, I think that the – I mean, we both know there are more than five senses. There’s the five standard ones. But I think, for example, your sense of proprioception

K: Yeah.

C: Is way stronger than mine. You – you seem to me just superhumanly aware of where your body is in space.

K: Yeah.

C: Whereas I am forever crashing into doorways and banging my hands on things and… like, we’ve got it set up now that I don’t bang my head on things, but in the U.S., there were several times that I gave myself concussions on different things that we hadn’t considered… hanging in space.

K: Like, there was one cabinet in particular in the United States that… the height of it was… the top of your head.

C: Yes.

K: So, you would – because it was a weird – we had…. The way that we had – we had a suspended microwave.

C: Right.

K: Which made the cabinet the height of your head. You were the only person who used that cabinet, and you would always leave the door open. And I would go behind you and close it. And if I didn’t, I would just hear, just like, agony cursing.

C: Yes.

K: And I knew what it was. And I would just leave you alone because I felt like you needed some privacy.

C: Yes. I only actually cracked my skull once.

K: Yeah, and it was not on that cabinet.

C: No. So, I think your sense of proprioception is really strong. So, I think that you’re kind of always aware of where your body is, and it makes you always aware of where my body is.

K: Yeah.

C: And so, that’s something that we have worked out over the many years is… how close should I pass to you. And there’s… a zone that you don’t like it if I pas that close but no closer. Like if I’m going to come – I couldn’t put inches on it – but I’m going to come within a certain distance of you

K: You have to touch me.

C: I have to touch you.

K: Yeah.

C: Just to reassure that I know where you are, and hello, and all that.

K: Yeah. Because if you don’t touch me, it feels like you’re pointedly avoiding touching me.

C: Right.

K: Because you are. And I don’t like that.

C: Yeah, you don’t want me going, “I’m not touching you.” Even though it’s not taunting. It’s just

K: When we were first together, you used to suck your stomach in to pass by me in this one area.

C: Yeah.

K: In our old kitchen. And I would be like, “why are you doing that?”

C: Yeah.

K: And so, then I would turn around, grab you, and squeeze you. And you were like, “I like the squeezes, but why are you squeezing me?” And I said, “because you’re trying not touch me. I’m going to make it impossible.”

(laughter)

K: And you’re like, “but I like the squeezes. I’m not sure you’re going to get the desired effect.”

C: And now I’ve found out that the desired effect is either touch you or don’t. Don’t come in that… zone without touching you.

K: Yeah.

C: I think that kind of conversation is unusual to have, and I think that if you’re living with people who are not your romantic partner, then that kind of thing that might happen incidentally – where you pass

K: If you can move past me, and I feel wind from it

C: Right.

K: Which… my – the hairs on my arms are super sensitive. Like, I can feel the wind blowing from the air conditioner across the room, and I can feel the wind blowing from the air conditioner above the bed.

C: Well, and the one across the room is technically in a different room.

K: Yes. But I can feel it. And it’s working my nerves.

C: Yeah.

K: I can feel it, and I can hear it.

C: Yes.

K: And so, that – if I can feel something, it will – I know it’s really getting on my nerves when I get to the point I can hear the thing I can feel.

C: Mhm.

K: Because part of my hearing loss is – has to do with my being dyslexic. And… the way my brain is wired for sensory input. Dyslexia affects – it affects more than reading. It affects encoding, and so the way – I don’t properly encode sounds.

C: Yeah. That’s interesting. Because I read

K: Yeah. I just drop – completely drop – sounds. And then there are certain register sounds that I can… hear them if I attend.

C: Yeah.

K: And then there are certain registers that, no matter what I do, I will never hear it.

C: That’s interesting. And I see it show up in your writing, too.

K: Yeah.

C: So, I think any time there’s a word that ends in “ist” I have to check whether it should be plural.

K: Yeah.

C: Because you just won’t write the s.

K: Yes.

C: And so – yeah.

K: And I cannot see the s when I write it.

C: Right.

K: So, s’s are a really difficult letter for me to see. I like – I just don’t see them.

C: Mhm.

K: And so, I often will have an s when it should be another letter, and I won’t see it. Like, I just cannot see the letter s. If I focus, and I know that I’m looking for the letter s, I can. With typing, it’s a lot easier because I know I’ve typed the letter s because it’s next to the letter a.

C: Yes.

K: And sometimes, I’ll type the “as” and delete the a. And know that the s is there.

C: Mhm.

K: And sometimes, it helps me see the s.

C: Interesting. I didn’t know you did that.

K: Yeah. That’s why there’s (laughs) all those extra a’s. In case you’re wondering. Now you know. Why there’s

C: Now I know. I learn new things all of the time.

K: (laughs)

C: So, maybe people who are having a tough time – and hear we’re not talking about people who are… involuntarily quarantining together. Where that wasn’t what they intended, but they ended up doing it.

K: Yeah.

C: And we’re not talking about people who don’t ever have a moment alone. We’re just saying people who have plenty of space to have moments alone.

K: We’re saying if you live in a 5-bedroom house, or you live in a house with wings

C: Right.

K: Why… does that person’s presence in the wing bother you? But the help’s presence doesn’t?

C: Yeah.

K: That’s weird to me. Because the reason t hat we’ve never had a live-in assistant… is because, while you would enjoy them, I would not. Because I would be aware that somebody was in my home.

C: And I’m not sure that I would

K: And that would bother me.

C: And ‘m not sure that I would enjoy them. Because the closest that I’ve ever come was, when I was a kid, my mom was terminally ill. Just to have fun with the topic. And, you know, my aunts and things would come and stay and help. So, that’s the closest I’ve ever come to having somebody live with me in a… capacity where it wasn’t just… they had to live with me.

K: I don’t think that you would like it because I absolutely loved it when Rasta moved back home.

C: Yeah, that was

K: I loved it.

C: That was hard

K: I absolutely loved it.

C: That was hard in the way that I hear people describing.

K: Okay.

C: And so, that’s what makes me think that I’m right – I mean, besides so often being correct – but that’s what makes me think that

K: (laughs) So, for me, Rasta and I have basically the same sleeping pattern. And… I also really, really enjoy hugging and kissing him.

C: Yeah.

K: And I like petting him. He’s like my favorite person to pet. And… so, I don’t care if y’all think I’m a weirdo or not – especially his hair. I love touching his face and hair. It drives me crazy the thought of anyone else doing it – like, that’s my face and my hair.

C: (laughs)

K: But I love just, like… laying in bed with him and just like stroking his hair and talking softly and kissing his soft skin – his face skin is so soft. (laughs) His face skin.

(laughter)

C: His cheeks?

K: His (laughs) face is so smooth and so soft except for where it has hair. And his facial hair is so silky. And his head hair is so silky. He’s like this beautiful, silky thing. And he’s really, really hot, so in the winter… it’s like I could just have him go sleep in my bed for a little while. Go warm up my bed. I haven’t done this – I didn’t do this when he moved in, but when he was young – and I doubt he’ll remember this. I used to have him, in the winter, go lay in my bed. And I would put cartoons on just to get him to warm up my bed because I didn’t wanna get into cold sheets.

C: Yeah.

K: And then you’d be like, “hey, is he going to do my side?” (laughs) Because he’s like an oven. We’ve talked about this before. He makes – because in the summer, I’m like, “you are so hot right now. Are yo kidding me? Go stand in front of a fan.”

C: (laughs)

K: “Put a fan on you.”

C: “Go melt elsewhere.”

K: Yes. “You are so hot.” He’s like, “what are you talking about?” There’s been times he’s come over, and I’m like, “you need to take a cold shower. You are making everything – just mentally, you are making me hot right now. I cannot.” And he’s like, “ugh. Okay, I guess I will. But you’re being ridiculous.” And I’m like, “no. You need to wet your hair. It’s too hot.”

C: (laughs)

K: And he’s like, “I’m telling you. I’m comfortable.” And I’m like, “I’m telling you. I’m not.”

C: Mhm.

K: And so, I guess I feel such a close bond with him.

C: Mhm.

K: In a way that I think you guys aren’t bonded.

C: Yeah. I think there’s not the… that bond on the physicality aspects of it. You know, we hug each other. We love each other and all that, but there’s not the kind of… my zone for – I don’t want people in this zone unless we’re being actually affectionate is much larger with him than it is with you.

K: You think he has a bigger buffer zone?

C: No. I think I have a bigger buffer zone with him than I have with you.

K: Oh, okay. Because I don’t know. Because I’ve taught him his whole life that I’m going to invade his space. And because he came out – he came out of my body.

C: Yeah.

K: That there’s just certain things he can’t have.

C: Mm.

K: And he’s consented to it, so it’s not

C: Yeah.

K: There’s certain things – like, I don’t touch his junk or anything like that. But I do, like – he knows that if I say “banjo boy” that his stomach’s getting tickled. And he can try to prevent it from happening, or – because every now and then he likes to say, “you can’t banjo boy me anymore.” He likes to challenge me. And I can still banjo boy him. For a long time, it was more difficult because I would always banjo boy him by going – putting my hand through his legs. And then there got to a place in time when that was… not comfortable for me. I didn’t want to touch his junk. So, he’s like, “I have a superpower now because mom can’t – is afraid of.”

C: (laughs) “Her arms are too short now to reach down between my knees and still get to my stomach.”

K: No, I – I don’t go through his legs anymore.

C: That’s what I’m saying. Your arms are too short.

K: No, now I go through his – the top of his chest.

C: Yeah.

K: But really what I do is I just go through the side, now.

C: Mhm.

K: Which is way easy. But he used to be able to clamp his sides down really strong. And I think now, he’s just like, “I want to be banjo boyed a little bit.”

C: Yeah.

K: Because he doesn’t clamp his arms like he used to. And we don’t wrestle as much as we used to. I can’t remember when the last time we wrestled was. I think he’s over wrestling me.

C: I think so.

K: I think because, like, when he was 16 or 17, he like thought he could out-wrestle me and then got humiliated.

C: Mm. It’s a good thing nobody brings it up.

K: (laughs) Well because he’s like, “okay, so if I’m willing to hurt you, I can beat you in wrestling.”

C: Right.

K: “And this is – you already kind of hurt me, so… your willingness to cause me pain to win is greater than my willingness to cause you pain to win.” And I thought – so, for me, I think of it as actually something really sweet. He realized that he’s not willing to ever cause me pain to win.

C: Mhm.

K: And so, he just doesn’t do all of the things that he would lose because he’s not willing to cause me pain to win. But then like, I cannot beat him at any game.

C: Yes.

K: Like, if we sit down to play a game, I can’t – like, it can be a game of counting to five. And I will not be able to win.

C: Just mentally and emotionally, you’re not able to.

K: Yeah.

C: And I told you this would happen.

K: You did. You warned me against it.

C: Yes. I told you, “do not lose to him. Do not – he is 7. You are better than this.”

K: Yeah.

C: And you’d be like, “but it’s so mean.” I’m like, “no. I will raise a very, very competitive child. He will be competitive.” And he is.

K: Mmm. Not really, though.

C: But you should’ve known from the tone I was saying that with how serious I was that you have to agree with me even if I’m wrong.

K: No, I don’t.

C: And see, this is why we get along. Boom, brought it back.

(laughter)

K: So, my point – my thing of what I think it is. I think it’s like yours except I think that it’s hours in the day. I think that people aren’t used to – because you do a lot of weird stuff when you work.

C: Yeah. I do.

K: And… I – I’m home on days that you work. That I’m not working. Because my work week is Tuesday through Saturday, and your work week is Monday through Friday. And so, we both have a day. And so… I have to yawn.

C: Yeah

K: But I don’t want it to make a weird noise.

C: I’m working Mondays when you’re not. You’re working Saturdays when I’m not.

K: Yeah. And so… I know that… there’s, like, a certain… rhythm, and you have meetings and… I know not to disturb you.

C: Mhm.

K: And a lot of couples just aren’t used to giving… each other privacy during – if I’m in the house with you, you can’t have privacy kind of thing.

C: I’ve seen a lot of parents struggle with their kids with this.

K: Yeah.

C: Because most of the people I work with are in Australia. And… now – like, as of this moment – they’re not in quarantine.

K: Just to be clear, we’re not talking about any of your coworkers. We are talking about things our friends have shared with us. This is the only coworker thing you’re saying.

C: Yeah, this is the only coworker thing.

K: And the other thing – we do not know if any of your coworkers are doing work naked. We honestly don’t know that.

C: No. And this is what coworkers have said to me because I have not actually seen any coworker’s kids except maybe in passing walking through a room or something. So, this is what they have said: is that, when their kids were at home with them, when they were quarantine, they found it very difficult because their kids are used to when they have – when they’re there, they have complete access. But, suddenly, mom and dad are not available for complete access.

K: Mm. I could see that.

C: And I think for a lot of couples

K: Depending on age, I could see that.

C: And I think for a lot of couples, that’s gonna be the same thing. Or for a lot of people who are living with family members. Where you’re used to seeing them certain times of day when you’re in a certain mindset, but you’re not used to seeing them when you’re working, or you’re not used to seeing them when this or that.

K: Mm. I just don’t understand why not sitting down and talking about space before – but we have this culture of – I have to yawn again.

C: Okay, so I’m going to say the entire time we’ve been married, I have worked at home except for about two or three years. And so, this is something that you and I talked about very early in our relationship even before we got married.

K: Yeah.

C: Is I work at home. This is… kind of my thing. The work that I do is portable. I can do it from home. I prefer to work from home because I do have… as you say, weird things that I do when I work that make it more comfortable for me to not be observed.

K: Yeah. And so… for me, anyone who feels like your partner is smothering you… cook a good meal. Get out a bottle of wine and talk about how you would like to divide the house.

C: Mhm.

K: And how you would like to divide the day. And then ask them what they would want. And I always say a good compromise is when both parties are a little bit happy and a little bit unhappy. So, for me, I absolutely hate the side of the house that I’m in. But there’s no other way to get the number of doors I want in between my sessions and Chad that would give access to the bathroom.

C: Right.

K: And I have… I have the need of, when I have a break in between clients, I don’t want anyone in the bathroom.

C: Yes.

K: and so, that means everyone always has to use the bathroom when I’m in session. So, I don’t get to have the bathroom on my half of the house, but I get to always have the bathroom available when I’m in between sessions, most of the time.

C: Yes.

K: Because, you know, try as we might kind of thing.

C: Well, I check the calendar because I – Google Calendar, we like it. You can share your

K: All my clients know that my Google Calendar is available, and they know that they’re a letter and some numbers. So… you don’t know who any of my clients are.

C: Yeah. I think you’re looking at your calendar. Because what I see is that you’re busy / free. So, I see the same thing I see for people I’m not their boss at work. I just see that they’re busy. I don’t see what they’re doing.

K: Well, when I look at my calendar – just to prove that you can’t figure out because… and maybe this person listens, and maybe they don’t. G56. Who’s G56? Now, if someone can send me an email that says G56, I will sensei you. But even G56 does not know they’re G56.

C: Mm.

K: Because I don’t always pick a letter that’s related to them. (laughs)

C: Mhm.

K: Which again, is being dyslexic. I write down a letter and a number. So, I assign a letter and a number at the time of intake.

C: Right.

K: And then I think I write that same letter and number down when they book an appointment.

C: Uh-huh.

K: But once they’re invoiced, they become that number. Because Rasta has a master list for the clients that he invoices, and he’s asked me to please use the master list when booking appointments. So, after booking someone’s appointment, I write down what I think their letter combo is.

C: Uh-huh.

K: And then I go look at the master list and put in – and I go, “how did that become their letter?”

C: Okay. So, I have to ask you, and I don’t normally ask you about your business. Is every client G for “girrrrl.”

K: (laughs) No. Because – I have some non-binary, and I have some trans clients, and I have some cis clients, and I have clients of all genders. And there are some genders that even saying “girl” in that way

C: Okay.

K: Would be… offensive.

C: Fair enough. I hadn’t thought about that.

K: Because you know my thing is dude and guys.

C: Yes.

K: And I really hurt someone’s feelings by saying “guys” and I was like

C: Mmm.

K: I use guys in the general sense.

C: So, then probably some of your clients are Y for “yo.”

K: No. I think Y for “y’all.”

C: Y’all? Okay.

K: Everybody knows I use y’all a lot.

C: Yes.

K: And… one of my non-binary clients, who’s given me permission to share this – I don’t work with them anymore – they were like, “you know, when I came out to you as non-binary, you’re the only person that used y’all.”

C: Mhm.

K: Instead of they/them.

C: Mhm.

K: And I would say, “y’all” and y’all is my they/them.

C: Yes.

K: So, that was funny. Now I’m – I use they/them, but the y’all was so natural, and they said – this was in their last session with me, and they were like, “it really made me feel strangely loved by you.”

C: (laughs)

K: And like – because it was so authentic. It wasn’t forced.

C: Yeah.

K: Because I had – they had been seeing me long enough to know that I used y’all for everything because I get that from my – from my mom. And from Grandma Maurel. And they were just like, “I just felt so loved.” And I thought that’s so cool. Just being my authentic self, someone felt loved. And I think that’s… so awesome.

C: I feel loved when you are your authentic self.

K: And I feel loved when you are your authentic self. So, be your authentic selves, but tell each other who that is. And ask what you want your boundaries to be. And… we know this one was a long one, so thanks for hanging out. We have a whole bunch of exciting stuff to talk about the release because now it’s been a few weeks, and it’s not so fresh that I’m fragile about it.

C: Yeah. The book release, to be clear.

K: Yeah. So, if you haven’t purchased your copy of Not My Ruckus, and you’re a Musick Note, why not?

C: Right?

K: (laughs) And if you’re a patron, you already have your copy, but if you haven’t posted in Amazon review or Bookstopia or – I don’t know. Just every platform review. Why not?

(laughter)

K: Thanks for hanging out with us. As always, we appreciate every listen, and we hope you follow us on over to the Patreon and check out the take two.

C: Bye.

K: Bye.